Building a US$5 billion oil refinery in Guyana unprofitable — expert

Drugb posted:
Django posted:

You don't know squat about the Sugar Industry,i grew up on one of the Estates,my mother and father [Driver] worked there, my cousins,brother and my self worked a few years as a casual worker, also i was a GAWU representative for the casual gang.As a matter of fact the estates were more productive in those days.

Suh haul your ass,you left Guyana at an early age.

You grew up only knowing the antiquated way of manufacturing. This does not mean you know about the modern techniques. One does not have to be a cane cutter to understand technology. 

Banna haul your ass talk to some one else.

Mechanical harvesting was tried and abondoned at Uitvlught Estate the reason was,the bed orientation had to be changed which was not an easy task,one of the major cost in the industry is the polder system,after i left had friends who were Estate,Factory Managers and Supervisors,some of my family worked in the office.

The Sugar Industry can become profitable,if Mechanized,lots of work i think it can be be done.

Django posted:

Banna haul your ass,

Mechanical harvesting was tried and abondoned at Uitvlught Estate,one of the major cost in the industry is the polder system,after i left had friends who were Estate,Factory Managers and Supervisors,some of my family worked in the office.

Get with the program, sugar has been harvested by machine for years now.

Sugarcane Harvesting I

Django posted:

Banna,I created a thread on GNI and post videos of modern techniques used in Sugar Plantations in the US,and questioned why GUYSUCO could not adopt the methods.

You are late to inform me about modern techniques.

Django, modernization and future thinking is the key to the survival of the sugar industry. Both the PPP and PNC lacked vision to move the industry ahead. They kept kicking the can down the road.

I think Raj Singh (now too sure about his correct name) was a PPP political appointee who is to accept blame here.

PNC has not done any better, they are actually doing worse.

yuji22 posted:
Django posted:

Banna,I created a thread on GNI and post videos of modern techniques used in Sugar Plantations in the US,and questioned why GUYSUCO could not adopt the methods.

You are late to inform me about modern techniques.

Django, modernization and future thinking is the key to the survival of the sugar industry. Both the PPP and PNC lacked vision to move the industry ahead. They kept kicking the can down the road.

I think Raj Singh (now too sure about his correct name) was a PPP political appointee who is to accept blame here.

PNC has not done any better, they are actually doing worse.

Be careful what you say here.  The "slop-can warriors" and simpleton light thinkers will relegate you the status of slop-can carrier and a PPP by day, PNC by night political wannabe!

However, I don't know if I totally agree, though there is merit in some.  It was the PNC who screwed things up, remember the PPP took over a bankrupt country.  It took 10 years to straighten out the national balance sheet left in tatters by these incompetents now ruling!  This was valuable time lost!

Drugb posted:
Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable,

Your Jagdeo had 15 years to fix that problem but instead squandered it in installing his fellow criminals to plunder Guysuco.

The stupid cane cutters will jump off the cliff to their death if Jagdeo tells them to so so.

ba$eman posted:
 

However, I don't know if I totally agree, though there is merit in some.  It was the PNC who screwed things up, remember the PPP took over a bankrupt country.  It took 10 years to straighten out the national balance sheet left in tatters by these incompetents now ruling!  This was valuable time lost!

In fact Hoyte installed Bookers to manage Guysuco and sugar registered a dramatic turn around, increasing from 132k tons in 1990 to 246k tons by 1992 when Hoyte left office.

In 2014, after tens of millions invested in the Skeldon factory white elephant production was a mere 216k.

Its a pity that your racism causes you to be a liar.  Jagdeo destroyed Guysuco when replaced Bookers Tate with his band of corrupt incompetents.

Django posted:

Banna,I created a thread on GNI and post videos of modern techniques used in Sugar Plantations in the US,and questioned why GUYSUCO could not adopt the methods.

You are late to inform me about modern techniques.

So why you letting jackass Granger off the hook? You shouldn't question GUYSUCO but Granger instead. This jackass had all the answers while in opposition and now pleading the 5th. 

caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable,

Your Jagdeo had 15 years to fix that problem but instead squandered it in installing his fellow criminals to plunder Guysuco.

The stupid cane cutters will jump off the cliff to their death if Jagdeo tells them to so so.

Nonsense, we already discussed this matter. Jagdeo still had the EU subsidy. Politicians will not take on long term projects if they don't see a political gain. Now Granger is the one who should be modernizing as now the day has come when sugar must become efficient or die. During Jagdeo time this pressure was not on. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:
Drugb posted:
Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable,

Your Jagdeo had 15 years to fix that problem but instead squandered it in installing his fellow criminals to plunder Guysuco.

The stupid cane cutters will jump off the cliff to their death if Jagdeo tells them to so so.

Nonsense, we already discussed this matter. Jagdeo still had the EU subsidy. Politicians will not take on long term projects if they don't see a political gain. Now Granger is the one who should be modernizing as now the day has come when sugar must become efficient or die. During Jagdeo time this pressure was not on. 

you did not discuss it too well. The EU subsidy was lost because of a failure of Persaud to file the necessary forms on time.

Granger cannot modernize without money. All of the allotment for sugar was sunk in that white elephant. They cannot even get anyone to take the creature. They will have to sell if for scrap. We are back to one old recommissioned mill

Come on guys, knock it off.  Sugar is not dead, though the PNC screwed it up.  But let's get to the more relevant, Trump lights a torch under the Wahab butts while Granger sleeps through the entire tornado!  This is so emblematic of the PNC in Guyana, sleep thru the economic downturn and the "canoe" economy will right itself!

Stormborn posted: 

you did not discuss it too well. The EU subsidy was lost because of a failure of Persaud to file the necessary forms on time.

Granger cannot modernize without money. All of the allotment for sugar was sunk in that white elephant. They cannot even get anyone to take the creature. They will have to sell if for scrap. We are back to one old recommissioned mill

Only 47 million US is owed. This is chump change. Let jackass Granger start over from scratch and build the engine that will keep sugar going. He already wasted billions on forensic audits, giving away Guyana scarce resources to Clive Thomas and fellow crooks. 

Drugb posted:
 

Nonsense, we already discussed this matter. Jagdeo still had the EU subsidy.

the EU announced long before Jagdeo left office that the EU subsidies and guaranteed access would be removed and they even provided funds to achieve this transition.

Did Jagdeo use these funds to allow those interested to getb long term leases with options to buy Guysuco lands on the understanding that alternative crops be grown.  Did he provide incentive to link this production to increased agri processing by DDL or some other large Guyanese company, or encourage new investment in this. No!

So instead Guyana imports processed foods and juice from Barbados and Trinidad, which source raw materials from Brazil and elsewhere.

Jagdeo plunged deeper into sugar with Skeldon factory, screaming that costs would plunge. TK and others warned him of the folly of this strategy.

Jagdeo was last seen cussing down the British for removing the EU subsidy, wailing that Guyana was owed this because of British colonialism!

Until you admit the role of the PPP in the Guysuco disaster you really cannot blame Granger!

Just be glad that Granger doesn't completely sell off/shut down Guysuco as Jagdeo did to Guymine. 80% of the bauxite workers lost their jobs. We have yet to see this with sugar.

caribny posted:

the EU announced long before Jagdeo left office that the EU subsidies and guaranteed access would be removed and they even provided funds to achieve this transition.

 

Get with the program, announcement is different than the actual removal of the subsidy. The subsidy removal was gradual, buying Jagdeo time. That is why he made the blunder with Skeldon and the packaging plant, to try to minimize the impact. However as I noted, govt should not be in the business of running industry, and true they bought a lemon from the Chinese. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

the EU announced long before Jagdeo left office that the EU subsidies and guaranteed access would be removed and they even provided funds to achieve this transition.

 

Get with the program, announcement is different than the actual removal of the subsidy. The subsidy removal was gradual, buying Jagdeo time. That is why he made the blunder with Skeldon and the packaging plant, to try to minimize the impact. However as I noted, govt should not be in the business of running industry, and true they bought a lemon from the Chinese. 

You do know that if you are trying to excuse Jagdeo by claiming that he didn't do anything, even though he was warned about the end of the subsidy you put him in a bad position.

Its like saying that it was OK for you to freeze in the cold because you didn't dress properly even though the forecast was for bad weather the week before. Trinidad shut down their industry even before that and Jamaica also decided to reduce the size of its industry, using mainly to provide raw material for its manufacturing sectors.

Jagdeo was told that EU was no longer going to subsidize ACP sugar and gave these countries funds. St Kitts took the money and helped their people (INCLUDING Guyanese living there) $$$ to find something else to so, and also compensated them for loss of their jobs.

Jagdeo screamed that Guyana isn't going to reduce its sugar industry and cussed out the EU for warning about a sharp reduction in prices.

I am glad to see that you now admit that Jagdeo blundered. His behavior is no more excusable that Granger thinking that all he needs to think of is oil. THAT is another blunder in the making.  But then only you think that Jagdeo is better.

To most these are two incompetent peas in a pod.  The only saving grace for Granger is at least he keeps his arrogance hidden.

and Druggie if Jagdeo had brains he would have sold off Guysuco at the same time that he sold off Guymine, as at least then it had value.

Heavily indebted and destroyed by the incompetents who Jagdeo used to replace Bookers Tate no one wanted it.

Ramakant-P posted:

The Guyana Gov't should let the US build the refinery and collect royalty on the outcome seeing that they cannot afford the cost.

I would be concerned about letting any foreign firm or government do that. Look how ALCOA is ripping off Suriname with the hydro electric dam. Or look at how Shell etc are doing the same in Nigeria.

caribny posted:

You do know that if you are trying to excuse Jagdeo by claiming that he didn't do anything, even though he was warned about the end of the subsidy you put him in a bad position.

Its like saying that it was OK for you to freeze in the cold because you didn't dress properly even though the forecast was for bad weather the week before. Trinidad shut down their industry even before that and Jamaica also decided to reduce the size of its industry, using mainly to provide raw material for its manufacturing sectors.

Jagdeo was told that EU was no longer going to subsidize ACP sugar and gave these countries funds. St Kitts took the money and helped their people (INCLUDING Guyanese living there) $$$ to find something else to so, and also compensated them for loss of their jobs.

Jagdeo screamed that Guyana isn't going to reduce its sugar industry and cussed out the EU for warning about a sharp reduction in prices.

I am glad to see that you now admit that Jagdeo blundered. His behavior is no more excusable that Granger thinking that all he needs to think of is oil. THAT is another blunder in the making.  But then only you think that Jagdeo is better.

To most these are two incompetent peas in a pod.  The only saving grace for Granger is at least he keeps his arrogance hidden.

correction, Guysuco/parliament blundered. Jagdeo did not make the decision to contract with the Chinese to build the factory. 

Jagdeo did what he needed to do for the sugar industry in good faith, presuming that the modern factory would produce effectively.  He was given bad advice all around, including from the two pnc lapdogs Naga and Prak. 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, all in hindsight with the benefit of 20/20 vision now looking back at the past. 

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