Building a US$5 billion oil refinery in Guyana unprofitable — expert

http://demerarawaves.com/2017/...unprofitable-expert/

Building a US$5 billion oil refinery in Guyana unprofitable — expert

 

Pedro Haas

The cost of building a brand new 100,000 barrel per day oil refinery in Guyana can cost up to US$5 billion with a negative rate of return on investment at between US$2 billion and US$3 billion, a consultant said Wednesday.

Director of Advisory Services at the United States-based Hartree Partners, Pedro Haas’ findings and assumptions were based on Guyana’s daily demand of between 13,000 and 14,000 barrels per day. Haas was hired by the Guyana government through the New Producers Group of the British-based international think-tank, Chatham House.

Pedro Haas delivering the results of a desktop feasibility of building an oil refinery in Guyana.

He said building a refinery with a capacity of 200,000 barrels per day – a “massive investment”- would far exceed Guyana’s demand.

Instead, he explored with the audience a 100,000 barrel per day capacity. “You can’t bring it down lower than that because of the cost of the off-site,” he said.  He said construction could take at least 60 months.

Adding the cost of the off-site location and its facilities such as electricity generation, hydrogen supply, water and docking would double the total cost to the US $5 billion figure.

He calculated that the cost of constructing a new refinery would be at US$25,000 per barrel.

Responding to a question by Geologist Evanradhay Persaud about the feasibility of establishing mini refineries, the consultant said that, too, would be expensive. “I don’t know that you would build a new refinery with all the ancillary facilities that you need will be a profitable event,” Haas said at the public consultation organised by the Ministry of Natural Resources and held at the Marian Academy auditorium, Carifesta Avenue, Georgetown.

The international oil expert, who has worked in the private sector and government, also took into consideration the cost of oil at US$46.50 per barrel. “This is a number that is going to vary on a day to day basis,” he said. Also considered are the facts that the United States has been exporting a lot of cheaper shale oil and liquified natural gas and international price projections.

He suggested a number of alternatives to the construction of a refinery in Guyana. They include selling all of Guyana’s crude and in turn importing supplies, swapping crude for oil products, or reaching an agreement with a refinery  to have a “certain slate of products” returned at an agreed place.

Touching on the fact that oil refineries in St. Croix, Aruba and Curacao have been closed down during the past several years, Haas said “that tells you something” about the viability of building a brand new, state of the art facility.

The Hartree official, however, said if the private sector is willing to risk investing in the construction of a refinery, government should not object if a state subsidy would not be required.

ExxonMobil intends to extract 100,000 barrels per day from its Liza field offshore Guyana when production begins in 2020.

Trinidad and Tobago’s Prime Minister, Keith Rowley recently flew to Texas where he is said to have lobbied ExxonMobil to refine its oil from Guyana in his country.

Trinidad and Tobago’s state oil company, Petrotrin, has excess refining capacity and has been refining crude from several other countries.

Original Post
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

So how did Suriname managed to afford to build a refinery?

Mr.T posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

So how did Suriname managed to afford to build a refinery?

That is why the Suriname economy is in the toilet due bad investments. In fact you must have missed the article where the Suriname govt admitted that their refinery could not process the grade of oil from Guyana due to limitations of the plant`s technology.

Mr.T posted:

The price of oil tanked their economy. The plant is doing Ok though. Maybe Guyana can send the oil to Suriname for processing.

The jackasses in Suriname did not build a proper refinery, it is unable to process Guyana oil, Trinidad will beat them out.

Suriname refinery unable to process Guyana’s oil-type – boss


 

Suriname’s refinery, Staatsolie, is not built to handle the type of oil that will be extracted in

Staatsolie’s chief, Rudolph Elias

Guyana.
“Their oil is a much lighter quality. Our refinery was built for the heavy oil that we have landed here in Suriname,” clarified Rudolf Elias, Managing Director of Staatsolie, talking to De Ware Tijd newspaper.
His statement will refute that of Minister of Natural Resources, Raphael Trotman, who last week reportedly indicated that Suriname is an option to process oil when it is to be pumped from wells offshore Guyana.
“Even if Suriname does its own discoveries in its deep sea area, the type of oil that will be of the same light quality as in Guyana. It will also not be processed in our refinery,” Elias added.
Another problem is the shallow nature of Suriname’s coast.
“Guyana will produce such large quantities that gigantic tankers will be needed to transport up to half a million barrels. Such large vessels cannot even moor to our shores, let alone sail the Suriname River to reach our refinery,” says the director.
Guyana also faces the same problems of shallow coastal and river areas.

Suriname’s state-owned, Staatsolie

“It’s just impossible enough to be dredged to allow large oil tankers. Guyana suffers from the same problem that the shallow coastline makes it unprofitable to build a large refinery.”
Minister Trotman had made it clear last week that it would not be feasible to invest more than US$2B to build a refinery that would largely be sitting idle.
Guyana recently conducted a study to determine whether it made sense to build a refinery.
According to the De Ware Tijd newspaper, the Staatsolie refinery can process up to 15,000 barrels of oil per day. The company produces more on a daily basis, thus leaving no room for oil from other countries.
Under options with ExxonMobil, the US company in 2015 announced one of the largest oil finds in this region, offshore Guyana; this country has the possibilities of taking 50 percent of each barrel of oil pumped. However, the problem it faces is finding a refinery to take off the oil.
Another option is having ExxonMobil take care of the logistics and take part of the profits.
However, Guyana is still to decide. One of the options for refining is to use Trinidad’s facilities

Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Padna, like you just learned something from this report? Seems like Guyana will remain the land of the rice, bauxite, and sugar as Terry Gajraj says.

Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Agreed. It costs too much and with other unprofitable oil refineries closing down, it is a huge risk.

We should have an Independent Parliamentary Committee appoint an Independent International Accounting firm and Oil Refinery expert for an unbiased assessment.

PNC cannot build a toilet so they hire a "Consultant" for a so called assessment.

This is pure Hogwash, PNC cannot even build a toilet. Trinidad has a oil refinery, why not Guyana ?

Let the private enterprise take the risk if they deem it necessary but Please, no PNC Dog Shyte People involved here. They have done shyte for Guyana so far.

BTW, BEGGAR MAN Mars knows shyte about wealth and economic development. He lives from hand to mouth. Hobos should not comment on wealth and economic development.

Granger fool up the people, he told many of the business people that they will reap a windfall with the development of a refinery. Now the jackass must back down as the door is slammed shut with the conclusion of this report. Maybe the PPP should have used this same firm to do the feasibility study on the Skeldon plant instead of only listing to Booker Tate.

yuji22 posted:

We should have an Independent Parliamentary Committee appoint an Independent International Accounting firm and Oil Refinery expert for an unbiased assessment.

PNC cannot build a toilet so they hire a "Consultant" for a so called assessment.

This is pure Hogwash, PNC cannot even build a toilet. Trinidad has a oil refinery, why not Guyana ?

Let the private enterprise take the risk if they deem it necessary but Please, no PNC Dog Shyte People involved here. They have done shyte for Guyana so far.

BTW, BEGGAR MAN Mars knows shyte about wealth and economic development. He lives from hand to mouth. Hobos should not comment on wealth and economic development.

Coming from a dunce who knows diddly squat about finance and babbles about being a day trader. Surely you jest.

Living hand to mouth? Is that the best you can do Numpty? You learnt about toilets when you went to Canada and suddenly you think you've arrived. 

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Padna, like you just learned something from this report? Seems like Guyana will remain the land of the rice, bauxite, and sugar as Terry Gajraj says.

Having wasted money on a hotel and a sugar factory that Guyana doesn't need does the PPP insist that taxpayer's fund a refinery?  The output will be way above Guyana's meager demand, so who will purchase its output. Refineries are being shit down globally so it does appear as if there is a glut. Given how vertically integrated this industry is there will be few buyers for output from a state owned refinery.

This should be a private entity where they can take the risk.  If private investors see too much risk then why should the gov't venture into activities that they don't understand, wasting billions as they do so?

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Padna, like you just learned something from this report? Seems like Guyana will remain the land of the rice, bauxite, and sugar as Terry Gajraj says.

Yuh leff out plantain, cussava, guava and banana.

Seriously, Guyana is yet to get its first payment for oil and gas from ExxonMobil. When that time comes, and when it could be calculated what yearly income to expect and what long-term income too, and when they subtract US$5billion from that revenue, they would be in a better position to decide on investing in refinery. Now too early. 

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

With things looking so bleak for Guyana you all better start offering foreigners horse-back riding in National Park for US20 per hour.  It will bring in hundreds of dollars per day and create jobs for at least 6 people.

You..Yugi..Nehru..Druggie..Bibi and either Skeldon banna or Alena, we'll let them fight for it . There we have it. The 6 of you PPP peeps could apply for those positions and hope not too many foreigners are heavy, they might injure your backs.

yuji22 posted:

We should have an Independent Parliamentary Committee appoint an Independent International Accounting firm and Oil Refinery expert for an unbiased assessment.

PNC cannot build a toilet so they hire a "Consultant" for a so called assessment.

This is pure Hogwash, PNC cannot even build a toilet. Trinidad has a oil refinery, why not Guyana ?

Let the private enterprise take the risk if they deem it necessary but Please, no PNC Dog Shyte People involved here. They have done shyte for Guyana so far.

BTW, BEGGAR MAN Mars knows shyte about wealth and economic development. He lives from hand to mouth. Hobos should not comment on wealth and economic development.

 

The story is about oil refinery not your delusion that you are Trump. And even he is lying.

I found this report

cain posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

With things looking so bleak for Guyana you all better start offering foreigners horse-back riding in National Park for US20 per hour.  It will bring in hundreds of dollars per day and create jobs for at least 6 people.

You..Yugi..Nehru..Druggie..Bibi and either Skeldon banna or Alena, we'll let them fight for it . There we have it. The 6 of you PPP peeps could apply for those positions and hope not too many foreigners are heavy, they might injure your backs.

Nah Bai Cain. I prefer to stay retired and breeze my balls at home. I am happy here in the Northern Tundra. You can take my spot and see if some of the riders got a little bit of 'erb on the side.

cain posted:

Ok Druggie is out so the two positions for SK banna and alena are now safe. You sure bout that Druggie, it's not too late to change your mind, just imagine, the sweet sunshine, ocean breeze, swatting flies?

I still think you fit in perfectly to grab a liitle bit of erb on the side. Take the job.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

With things looking so bleak for Guyana you all better start offering foreigners horse-back riding in National Park for US20 per hour.  It will bring in hundreds of dollars per day and create jobs for at least 6 people.

And a Granger dream could come through, they can sell them cassava bread and plantain chips.

That is his vision for Guyana, he is such a DUNCE idiot.

Gilbakka posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Padna, like you just learned something from this report? Seems like Guyana will remain the land of the rice, bauxite, and sugar as Terry Gajraj says.

Yuh leff out plantain, cussava, guava and banana.

 

Thank you for the keen observation.

The refinery in Aruba can be easily reactivated if there is demand. It is cheaper to refine in Trinidad which are operating at less than 50% capacity due to US shale. Paraguana in Venezuela is another option, although  I doubt that the Vzl Gov would permit it.

 

caribny posted:

In fact Trotman has indicated that it makes no sense for the gov't to be involved in the refinery. Not sure why the PPP frauds urge this given the colossal failure of their involvement in GuySICKO!

You mixing up apples and oranges.  However, I have long contend that, at 15k BPD, a refinery will never be justified.  This is made worse by the fact that the oil is offshore and has to be shipped in and pumped to the refinery.

Guyana would do best to take the crude earnings, fund a series of Hydro dams, develop the national infrastructure and invest in the traditional economy.  With cheap power, the economy as it stands, will do much better.  This was possible if the clowns in the PNC/AFC did not block Amelia!  No one questioned the viability of that project except the PNC/AFC dunda heads!

Guysuco is still viable in the larger sense.  Stop being a clown and listen to daddy Baseman!

ba$eman posted:
.!

Guysuco is still viable in the larger sense.  Stop being a clown and listen to daddy Baseman!

Really. So why aren't Jagdeo and the rest of his oligarchs not looking to buy it? I am sure that Harmon will sell it to them for one dollar and then collect 1% of the profits.

 

Look at it this way Jagdeo would then crown himself Super Indoman, who rescued Indians from BLACKMAN.

But they don't.  They want the majority of tax payers who work in other sectors where there are no gov't subsidies to keep PPP supporters employed.  And the thing is that they will then scream how "hard working" Indians are and that they don't need anybody else.  Granger call a bluff on this lie.

caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:
.!

Guysuco is still viable in the larger sense.  Stop being a clown and listen to daddy Baseman!

Really. So why aren't Jagdeo and the rest of his oligarchs not looking to buy it? I am sure that Harmon will sell it to them for one dollar and then collect 1% of the profits.

 

This is where you don't get it.  On a stand-alone basis, it's not viable.  On a macro-economic and national level, it works.  It will never work in private hands!

ba$eman posted:
.
 

This is where you don't get it.  On a stand-alone basis, it's not viable.  On a macro-economic and national level, it works.  It will never work in private hands!

And when Guysuco's exports tumble as no one wants to buy Guyanese sugar where will these benefits be?   Europe no longer wants this. The UK will claim that they are no longer in the EU.  Guyana sugar is way above world prices so no one else will buy it.

So where will this macroeconomic "benefits" be?  Sugar is dead. Give it a decent burial.  Even Cuba and the DR, once large global exporters, have now dramatically scaled back.

caribny posted:

And when Guysuco's exports tumble as no one wants to buy Guyanese sugar where will these benefits be?   Europe no longer wants this. The UK will claim that they are no longer in the EU.  Guyana sugar is way above world prices so no one else will buy it.

So where will this macroeconomic "benefits" be?  Sugar is dead. Give it a decent burial.  Even Cuba and the DR, once large global exporters, have now dramatically scaled back.

Sugar can be profitable, however it will take technical knowledge, much effort and deep pockets to bring the industry around.  If other nations are competitive then Guyana can also be so, but I don't believe we have any local investors with the skill sets and deep pockets to bring this to fruition. What is clear is that it should not be a govt run industry. Meanwhile the PPP should make as much political mileage off of Granger's burden of closing down the industry, if they want to ascend to power in 2020. 

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

And when Guysuco's exports tumble as no one wants to buy Guyanese sugar where will these benefits be?   Europe no longer wants this. The UK will claim that they are no longer in the EU.  Guyana sugar is way above world prices so no one else will buy it.

So where will this macroeconomic "benefits" be?  Sugar is dead. Give it a decent burial.  Even Cuba and the DR, once large global exporters, have now dramatically scaled back.

Sugar can be profitable, however it will take technical knowledge, much effort and deep pockets to bring the industry around.  If other nations are competitive then Guyana can also be so, but I don't believe we have any local investors with the skill sets and deep pockets to bring this to fruition. What is clear is that it should not be a govt run industry. Meanwhile the PPP should make as much political mileage off of Granger's burden of closing down the industry, if they want to ascend to power in 2020. 

Clearly shows you don't know anything about sugar production in Guyana,also your blind support for the PPP is glaring it's all about the power to rule,to achieve that use the Indian people who follows blindly and can't comprehend the reality.

You and the crew only sees Indian vs Africans,your types are not needed to bring the people together,shame on you living in first world countries where patriotism is foremost,have you all not learn that division is not healthy for any nation.

Django posted:

Clearly shows you don't know anything about sugar production in Guyana,also your blind support for the PPP is glaring it's all about the power to rule,to achieve that use the Indian people who follows blindly and can't comprehend the reality.

I know much more about sugar than you do. Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable, these folks need to step into the future. During Jagdeo time, the industry was able to get away with inefficiencies as they had the EU subsidy. But today under jackass Granger, there is no room for error, so the jackass throw in the towel instead of applying brain power and coming up with a solution. 

I don't support any political party in Guyana, I am an observer, I can't even vote if I wanted. 

caribny posted:
ba$eman posted:
.
 

This is where you don't get it.  On a stand-alone basis, it's not viable.  On a macro-economic and national level, it works.  It will never work in private hands!

And when Guysuco's exports tumble as no one wants to buy Guyanese sugar where will these benefits be?   Europe no longer wants this. The UK will claim that they are no longer in the EU.  Guyana sugar is way above world prices so no one else will buy it.

So where will this macroeconomic "benefits" be?  Sugar is dead. Give it a decent burial.  Even Cuba and the DR, once large global exporters, have now dramatically scaled back.

There is still macro-economic benefit given the fact that it's still a net positive Forex earner for Guyana.  Every dollar of forex earned likely have a 10-fold multiplier effect on the domestic economy!  I am not privy to their internal numbers, but just on what we know, lots of local value input and mostly Forex earnings derived from export, one can surmise there is a larger macro economic benefit than the mere stand-alone numbers tell!

Granger and the PNC acting out of spite and seeking to "starve" the Indians out of Guyana.  Granger is a smiling snake!

Drugb posted:
caribny posted:

And when Guysuco's exports tumble as no one wants to buy Guyanese sugar where will these benefits be?   Europe no longer wants this. The UK will claim that they are no longer in the EU.  Guyana sugar is way above world prices so no one else will buy it.

So where will this macroeconomic "benefits" be?  Sugar is dead. Give it a decent burial.  Even Cuba and the DR, once large global exporters, have now dramatically scaled back.

Sugar can be profitable, however it will take technical knowledge, much effort and deep pockets to bring the industry around.  If other nations are competitive then Guyana can also be so, but I don't believe we have any local investors with the skill sets and deep pockets to bring this to fruition. What is clear is that it should not be a govt run industry. Meanwhile the PPP should make as much political mileage off of Granger's burden of closing down the industry, if they want to ascend to power in 2020. 

Bull-shyte, the Govt is stuck with Sugar for now.  It's the only viable model!  No private investor will take it over.  I don't know what incremental benefit the PPP will get out of Granger/PNC actions when it's likely, most of these affected workers voted PPP in any case.  If you mean show the non-sugar workers the negative effects on the general economy, then you have a point.  Thus far, I don't see that!

Sugar is being fought like it's a sugar only battle, it is not and that is what the PPP needs to leverage with the larger population.

Forget Caribj, he is a [friggin] extreme racist and a [thick headed] partial dunce, so he will never [in his dark mind] see the light on anything remotely related to the interest of Indians.  Remember, these were the [racist] clowns who voted PNC even as the house of cards collapsed all around them.

ba$eman posted:

Bull-shyte, the Govt is stuck with Sugar for now.  It's the only viable model!  No private investor will take it over.  I don't know what incremental benefit the PPP will get out of Granger/PNC actions when it's likely, most of these affected workers voted PPP in any case.  If you mean show the non-sugar workers the negative effects on the general economy, then you have a point.  Thus far, I don't see that!

 

This is correct, but govt will close down the industry as they don't have the cash to keep plugging the deficit to produce sugar to the tune of billions. The overall effect of the decline of the sugar industry is already being felt by the general population, this is what the PPP need to capitalize on. In fact they can get a 2 for 1, let the PNC close down the industry so they don't have to be burned with guysuco. When/if PPP get back in power the would claim that PNC destroyed sugar and there is no way back. Let the PNC be the fall guys. 

Drugb posted:
ba$eman posted:

Bull-shyte, the Govt is stuck with Sugar for now.  It's the only viable model!  No private investor will take it over.  I don't know what incremental benefit the PPP will get out of Granger/PNC actions when it's likely, most of these affected workers voted PPP in any case.  If you mean show the non-sugar workers the negative effects on the general economy, then you have a point.  Thus far, I don't see that!

 

This is correct, but govt will close down the industry as they don't have the cash to keep plugging the deficit to produce sugar to the tune of billions. The overall effect of the decline of the sugar industry is already being felt by the general population, this is what the PPP need to capitalize on. In fact they can get a 2 for 1, let the PNC close down the industry so they don't have to be burned with guysuco. When/if PPP get back in power the would claim that PNC destroyed sugar and there is no way back. Let the PNC be the fall guys. 

f uck you already planning to deceive the indian people and  the funny thing the ppp will be in opposition for the next 20 yrs

Drugb posted:
ba$eman posted:

Bull-shyte, the Govt is stuck with Sugar for now.  It's the only viable model!  No private investor will take it over.  I don't know what incremental benefit the PPP will get out of Granger/PNC actions when it's likely, most of these affected workers voted PPP in any case.  If you mean show the non-sugar workers the negative effects on the general economy, then you have a point.  Thus far, I don't see that!

 

This is correct, but govt will close down the industry as they don't have the cash to keep plugging the deficit to produce sugar to the tune of billions. The overall effect of the decline of the sugar industry is already being felt by the general population, this is what the PPP need to capitalize on. In fact they can get a 2 for 1, let the PNC close down the industry so they don't have to be burned with guysuco. When/if PPP get back in power the would claim that PNC destroyed sugar and there is no way back. Let the PNC be the fall guys. 

Nonsense, ring fence some duties on items imported with hard currency earned by Sugar.  That alone will fund the sugar deficit.  Then let the rest of the economy benefit from the added value of the imported materiel as it ripples through the general economy.  That will create employment for everyone and further added tax revenues for the Govt!

Drugb, you used to think back in the day?  What happen, your synapses getting rusty?  You have really "dumb down" over time!  Jeeezee!!

Drugb posted:
Django posted:

Clearly shows you don't know anything about sugar production in Guyana,also your blind support for the PPP is glaring it's all about the power to rule,to achieve that use the Indian people who follows blindly and can't comprehend the reality.

I know much more about sugar than you do. Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable, these folks need to step into the future. During Jagdeo time, the industry was able to get away with inefficiencies as they had the EU subsidy. But today under jackass Granger, there is no room for error, so the jackass throw in the towel instead of applying brain power and coming up with a solution. 

I don't support any political party in Guyana, I am an observer, I can't even vote if I wanted. 

You don't know squat about the Sugar Industry,i grew up on one of the Estates,my mother and father [Driver] worked there, my cousins,brother and my self worked a few years as a casual worker, also i was a GAWU representative for the casual gang.As a matter of fact the estates were more productive in those days.

Suh haul your ass,you left Guyana at an early age.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Oil refinery will be an albatross around Guyana's neck. It's costs will eat up whatever oil and gas revenues Guyana gets from ExxonMobil. Abandon the idea.

Padna, like you just learned something from this report? Seems like Guyana will remain the land of the rice, bauxite, and sugar as Terry Gajraj says.

Drugb posted:
Django posted:

Clearly shows you don't know anything about sugar production in Guyana,also your blind support for the PPP is glaring it's all about the power to rule,to achieve that use the Indian people who follows blindly and can't comprehend the reality.

I know much more about sugar than you do. Its inefficient antiquated manufacturing method inherited from the British is no longer sustainable, these folks need to step into the future. During Jagdeo time, the industry was able to get away with inefficiencies as they had the EU subsidy. But today under jackass Granger, there is no room for error, so the jackass throw in the towel instead of applying brain power and coming up with a solution. 

I don't support any political party in Guyana, I am an observer, I can't even vote if I wanted. 

maybe he can build one more factory like the one batty boy build the one that really help to kill sugar

Django posted:

You don't know squat about the Sugar Industry,i grew up on one of the Estates,my mother and father [Driver] worked there, my cousins,brother and my self worked a few years as a casual worker, also i was a GAWU representative for the casual gang.As a matter of fact the estates were more productive in those days.

Suh haul your ass,you left Guyana at an early age.

You grew up only knowing the antiquated way of manufacturing. This does not mean you know about the modern techniques. One does not have to be a cane cutter to understand technology. 

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