AFC must give up gov’t posts to save credibility, support –Ramkarran.

AFC must give up gov’t posts to save credibility, support –Ramkarran.

November 26,2017

Source

Contending that the government’s reluctance to pursue constitutional reform has damaged the credibility of the Alliance For Change (AFC) and cost it key support, former Speaker Ralph Ramkarran says the party’s ministers should resign their Cabinet posts and instead serve as watchdog parliamentarians to ensure the fulfilment of election campaign promises.

“The failure of the government to proceed with constitutional reform, and the AFC’s seeming inability to push this agenda, has therefore deprived the AFC of much of its credibility and raison d’etre. If the AFC has been pushing for constitutional reform and the government as a whole has been dragging its feet, the time has come for the AFC ministers to resign from the government,” Ramkarran writes in his latest Conversation Tree column, which is reproduced in today’s Sunday Stabroek.

“By resigning its ministries, the AFC will restore some of its credibility and perhaps support. The public will see that for the AFC, political office and the perks are of less importance than political principle; that the AFC is determined to ensure that its policy of the end of racial politics is implemented; and that the AFC is a party of integrity. The new relationship between APNU and the AFC, with the AFC out of the government but its members sitting on the back benches, should be the subject of the new or amended accord, whether negotiated in Cummingsburg or elsewhere, which the AFC is proposing to have with APNU,” he adds.

Ramkarran’s suggestions come in wake of the recent criticism the party has faced over its publicly stated support for President David Granger’s unilateral appointment of retired judge James Patterson as the Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission (Gecom).

Some of that criticism has come from within the party itself, as evidenced by recent leaked emails, which show that some party executives believe that the party’s support for the controversial decision has made it look weak and will likely result in its losing supporters. In particular, Chairman of the AFC’s United States Chapter Dr Rohan Somar noted, “Given the worsening racial polarisation in Guyana, this unilateral appointment by the Executive PNC President of an Afro Guyanese Gecom Chair-man, whether right or wrong, rips open the scars of (the) PNC rigging election(s). You have just thrown red meat to the notion of “PNC rigging election” which, in my view, will cause the AFC to forever lose Indo Guyanese support at the poll.”

Somar further stated that the decision by the AFC to accept the unilateral appointment was a major strategic blunder since the situation could have provided the perfect opportunity to stand its ground and “shake the foundation of the PNC dominated coalition and maintain its independence, leverage and credibility.”

‘Fear’

In his column, Ramkarran argues that while the AFC has drawn support across the ethnic divide, it was the support from Indo-Guyanese that enabled the APNU+AFC coalition to win the 2015 elections. He adds that despite this, the AFC has shown “a palpable lack of understanding” of the depth of fear of Indo-Guyanese and others that APNU will rig the next elections. “The unilateral appointment of a Chair for Gecom exacerbated that fear. And the AFC knows that they believe the evidence which caused the fear,” he says, while noting that the PNC—now the PNCR, which is the main constituent of APNU—rigged elections from 1968 to 1985. “Second, the PNC by itself has never won more than 42 percent of the vote in free and fair elections. Third, the AFC has lost substantial support and its contribution to the coalition at the next elections will be very modest. Fourth, this will keep the coalition below 50 percent. Fifth, in a two-party contest, the PPP will win. The answer? Rig! The AFC’s insensitivity to this scenario and its failure to persuade, or seek to persuade, the President to adopt a different approach to the appointment of the Gecom chair, has lost it substantial credibility,” he contends.

According to Ramkarran, while Guyana is not the same country that it was between the 1960s and the 1980s and the main political parties have changed, the ethnic competition between its major races, which has given rise to the permanent struggle for ethno-political dominance, remains the fundamental condition of the society.

He further notes that it was the desire for ethno-political dominance that led to the break-up of the PNC-UF coalition in 1964, which preceded the rigging of elections from 1968 to 1985. “This memory is seared in the consciousness of Guyanese and, in particular, Guyanese Indians because they attribute the rigging of elections as being designed to deprive them of political power. In divided societies, the memory of events which are believed by one ethnic group to be directed against it by the other does not recede. The burden of victimhood does not lighten. This the AFC has failed to understand this and it will cost it even more of its Guyanese Indian support. Let me hasten to add: The sense of victimhood is not confined to Indians. It is felt by Guyanese Africans as well, against Indians and Indian leaders but for other reasons,” he adds.

Ramkarran also points out that the end of racial politics is fundamental to the AFC’s credo, with constitutional reform expected to be the means by which this would be achieved. It is against this background that he argues that the failure of the government to proceed with constitutional reform has harmed the AFC. (Constitutional reform within the first 100 days in office was one of the promises in the APNU+AFC campaign manifesto for the May, 2015 polls. A bill for the establishment of a Constitutional Reform Commission is currently before the National Assembly.)

Ramkarran further argues that the party cannot sustain its credibility while remaining ineffective in relation to the most important aspects of its platform. Further lack of success, he adds, will leave its credibility in tatters but with backbench Members of Parliament, it will be far more influential and respected because at any time it would be able to bring down the government. As a result, he says it will then be in a far stronger position to make demands for fulfillment of coalition promises on constitutional reform and other matters.

Original Post

Mr. Ramkarran is on the money, but as the AFC keep sinking in the face of controversies and failed promise. They would rather go down with the ship than to abandon their ministries and serve as watchdog parliamentarians. AFC has made a good first impression that fades rapidly with power. Now they will fall under their own weight. 

APNU’s David Granger (left) and AFC’s Moses Nagamootoo, then presidential and prime ministerial candidates of the new coalition, after announcing the signing of the “Cummingsburg Accord” to formalise the pre-electoral alliance. (Stabroek News file photo)

AFC wants structured dialogue with APNU

-as part of revised Cummingsburg Accord

November 26,2017

Source

When the Alliance for Change (AFC) meets with governing coalition partner A Partnership for National Unity (APNU) to review their pre-electoral alliance pact, the Cummingsburg Accord, its demands will include more structured inter-party communication.

The party will also be going to the talks with other issues, such as their participation in the local government elections set for next year and the 2020 general and regional elections.

“One of the most important issues is the dialogue between the parties. It has to be more structured as part of communication,” Minister of Public Infra-structure David Patterson, who is leading the review of the accord for the AFC, told Sunday Stabroek.

“The inter-party communication was not addressed in the original Cummingsburg Accord. It has to be addressed now. We want it formalized.  Whatever construct the coalition agrees, it has to be a formal thing. The coalition needs to know a structure–both sides need to know when and where we will be meeting and how often and those things like that,” he explained.

Joseph Harmon
 

The Cummingsburg Accord was signed for a minimum period of three years and a maximum of five years. But the AFC has also noted that it is a sunset pact, which requires early review ahead of the upcoming polls.

President David Granger, who is the leader of APNU, last Friday said that he welcomed the request by the AFC to have a review, as provided for.

“The AFC is entitled make their requests known. …Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, there is a requirement to review the Accord after three years and that three years will expire after midnight on the 13th of February, 2018. So, it is within in the right of the AFC to request a review. I don’t have a problem with that,” Granger told reporters.

This position was echoed by APNU General Secretary Joseph Harmon, who told Sunday Stabroek that while he is still to receive a formal request for the meetings, he, and is sure his party, looks forward to the discussions and resolutions coming out of them.

“We don’t have an issue with having it reviewed, because as agreements are they are affected by the day to day lives of people. The agreement is not crafted in stone that things cannot be changed as you go through. The APNU side doesn’t have a problem with the terms and conditions of the Accord. We believe it was a good thing for Guyana and continues to be a good thing for Guyana. It is always necessary for you to review agreements and this agreement provides a situation for review. We are open to the discussions and so on,” he said.

“I have not been officially notified by the [AFC], in writing, but I take notice of the statement made by the party. I think it is public knowledge and I would take that as notice, but they have not yet written to say we are requesting a specific date and time when we will meet for this or that. I think we are experienced enough to know that once that information is put in the public domain, that we should take notice of it,” he added.

Convenient

Sunday Stabroek repeatedly tried over the last week to contact AFC leader Raphael Trotman to enquire if the process has been initiated formally. However, this has proven futile as calls and texts to his phone have gone unanswered.

Harmon, however, pointed out that there was no iron clad review period although he thought that the AFC’s request has come at a good time. “I believe it was a convenient time [the anniversary] and maybe it is a good point for the review,” he said.

He explained that he could not state how long the review process would take once decided on, since it is unclear what modifications to the agreement are being sought by the AFC. “I don’t know what is the extent of it—their proposals. So, we can’t say it will be completed by x or y time and so on, because you see there is no imperative for any changed conditions right away. Basically, depending on the depth of the conversations which will take place, I believe that at that point we will determine how long it will take and so on,” Harmon  added.

Patterson said that he feels that the time frame given to complete the negotiations is not too little since the first agreement was completed “within one or two weeks”, and in this case there is at least two months.  He said that the review process should not take long also because “It is something that we already have. The ground work has already been laid, so I don’t see time being an issue at all.”

Under the agreement, the coalition had said that “both parties commit “to accept and promote dialogue, discussion and the use of constitutional means to advance economic, political and social change; respect the value and sanctity of human life; maintain high levels of mutual respect; reject ethnicity as a consideration for the participation of citizens in government, denounce corruption and promote financial transparency, probity at all levels of government.”

The AFC has since earlier this year appointed a team to review the Accord but last week its National Executive Committee (NEC), following a meeting, announced that it wanted the review by next February.

After the coalition had entered office in May, 2015, there were immediate concerns that the AFC’s leading member in the government, Prime Minister Moses Nagamootoo, was being sidelined in favour of Harmon. Though he was number two in government, Nagamootoo had few portfolio responsibilities, while Harmon’s portfolio was multifaceted and kept expanding. There were also concerns in other areas.

The Accord had provided for the Prime Minister to chair Cabinet meetings but following the coalition’s ascension to office, it was stated that such a practice would be in breach of the country’s Constitution.

Article 106 (3) of the Constitution states that the President shall preside over Cabinet meetings although it also sets out that the Prime Minister shall do so in his absence.

More recently, the AFC has come in for strong criticisms from within its own executive over its public endorsement of Granger’s unilateral selection of 84-year-old retired judge James Patterson as Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission.

This issue saw the withdrawal of the Canadian Chapter.

‘Refining’

Patterson said that the NEC’s decision to mandate Trotman to write government for a review of the Accord was not based not on any one issue but the feelings by its executives that clear explanations and guidelines were needed on matters in the agreement.

“There are several areas that our membership has asked us to look at, including the whole issue of the relationship with our partners as well as a clear understanding of discussions and resolution agendas going forward. There is not any one specific matter, as there are several areas that were raised that needed refining. It is a discussion process,” he noted.

Since matters pertaining to local government elections never formed a part of the Accord, the party expects that they will during the review.

“Local government  is one of the areas that was omitted… but the construct of how we go ahead in local government, in what format, if we are going to go as a coalition, we need a full agreement on how that is going to be done. So that is one issue they asked that we raise with our counterparts,” Patterson explained.

“It is not a question of power or authority or anything like that. The group would like to have a clear understanding. Just as how we have a clear understanding of Cabinet, the relation of authorities and those things like that, we need to have a clear understanding of local government and several matters going forward. It is just a review of several issues that would have come up at our NEC,” he added.

However, Patterson said “one of the most important issues” is the internal party dialogue, while saying that “it has to be more structured as part of communication.”

“Say how we know the structure of the Cabinet… once we have an agreed documented procedure that would be okay by us,” he said.

Among the terms of the Cummings-burg Accord were that the APNU would nominate the coalition’s Presidential candidate and AFC would nominate the Prime Ministerial candidate. The AFC was assured of 12 seats in the National Assembly and that that Cabinet positions would be allocated on a 60/40 basis between the APNU and the AFC, respectively.

Also, in the construct of a new government, the APNU was to be allocated one Vice-President and AFC two Vice-Presidents, both of whom will be members of the Cabinet. The Accord also stated that in reflecting the thinking and commitment to and for future constitutional reform, it had been agreed that the Presidency will be reorganized along several lines.

It was agreed that the President as Head of State, Head of Government, and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces shall have responsibility for the appointment of constitutional agencies and commissions with the required and agreed democratic mechanisms of consultation and appointment. The President would also have responsibilities for Foreign Affairs, International Relations and Non-Commercial Treaties as well as National Security Policy, the Defence Board, the Joint Intelligence Committee, and the Guyana Defence Force, among other things.

It was agreed also that the president would delegate the following responsibilities to the Prime Minister: – Domestic National Affairs and Chairing Cabinet; Recommending Ministerial appointments and providing the organizational structures of Ministries for the approval of the President; Appointment of Head of Agencies and Non-Constitutional Com-missions with the required and agreed democratic mechanisms of consultation and appoint; and Domestic Security (Home Affairs).

The coalition also touted inclusionary democracy and promised that the nation would see this materialized as a re-energizing of citizens through openness and access to their representatives. It promised a government “which treats all citizens as equal under the law; through the sharing of information on matters of public interest and through subjugating partisan politics to the national interest. People’s interest in participation in the political life, especially among the marginalized segments of the population, in this way will be rekindled. Young people, particularly, should be motivated and mobilized to take a more active role in political life and the development of the nation.”

Prince posted:

Mr. Ramkarran is on the money, but as the AFC keep sinking in the face of controversies and failed promise. They would rather go down with the ship than to abandon their ministries and serve as watchdog parliamentarians. AFC has made a good first impression that fades rapidly with power. Now they will fall under their own weight

Hold your horses,not yet,read the article above,the PPP drooling for a break up,bear in mind not everything does be rosy and dandy with Coalition Gov'ts.

Granger will have to be pushed against the wall,let wait and see what the review process of the Cummingsburg Accord will bring forth.

 

Django posted:
Prince posted:

Mr. Ramkarran is on the money, but as the AFC keep sinking in the face of controversies and failed promise. They would rather go down with the ship than to abandon their ministries and serve as watchdog parliamentarians. AFC has made a good first impression that fades rapidly with power. Now they will fall under their own weight

Hold your horses,not yet,read the article above,the PPP drooling for a break up,bear in mind not everything does be rosy and dandy with Coalition Gov'ts.

Granger will have to be pushed against the wall,let wait and see what the review process of the Cummingsburg Accord will bring forth.

 

I should know better what the PPP is hoping for. Don't be surprised if they team up with PPP for 2020. Words are if the PPP demonstrate a coalition force and clean up their acts, big brother might sympathize with them. 

Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

Like it or not, Guyanese are entrenched in a PPP/PNC realm. Any other party will only be instrumental in keeping those two parties honest. The AFC was able to garner more support than any other third party to limit the power of the two major parties as evidenced by their performance in the 2011 elections and their subsequent alignment with the main Opposition PNC in limiting/curbing the actions of the ruling PPP. While their teaming up with the PNC has earned them the right to govern, all it managed to do is destroyed their political capital developed over the past decade. Today, it is on life support and for all intents and purposes, Granger seems ready to pull the plug on them. From the article above, it looks like Granger and Harmon are welcoming the Accord review more than the AFC and that could only mean that the PNC intends to further limit the role of the AFC in a revised Accord. As our buddy Carib has been saying since May 16, 2015, the AFC got more Coalition parliamentary seats than the support the brought to the Coalition. He didn't think they deserve the 12 seats they got and my guess is that Granger and Harmon will point that out to the AFC. So Ramkarran is correct. The more the AFC remain part of the Coalition government, the less it will exist as a Party for Change. 

Gilbakka posted:

I endorse every sentence Ralph Ramkarran writes in his CONVERSATION TREE article. Thanks for posting, Django.

Gil. I am uncertain that this will result in appeasing the AFC supporters who have left the party. From those I have spoken to throughout my travels in Guyana, they want the AFC to pull out of the coalition and for the government to fall. This move suggested by RAmkarran  will be seen as more negative by leadership , because the facade of having some input, of being part of the government will collapse and expose them for the Lapp dogs they are. Also, it will confirm to the people that the AFC made a monumental mistake when they broke their promise of not joining with any of the major political party and joined with APNU. Which politicians ever accept and publicize their mistakes? 

Key also will be Granger's response to such a move. I do not think that Granger will allow this to happen. He might just remove them from the list and replace them with others or appoint APNU to all cabinet positions.

furthermore, this move might split the AFC into its pro and ANti PNC factions. We can then see a Trottman, GRanger's son in law and  others staying in their posts, while others remain.

the AFC has chosen to hold on to the tiger's tail and will get hurt one way or the other if it release it!

 

Django posted:
Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

However, if the PNC continues to treat the AFC as a doormat and it wises up and breaks away from the PNC, then the PPP by a small margin will outperform the PNC. Especially given how hapless this government has been the past two plus years. The AFC will then be able to align itself with whichever side is correct on any particular bill which will restore its mantra as a party for change. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS WILL MATTER IF GRANGER HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT THE FUTURE ELECTIONS WILL GO AS THE ONES BETWEEN 1964 AND 1992.

Prashad posted:

East Indians of Guyana must see themselves as members of their own nation.

Trini East Indians and Surinamese East Indians should link up with Guyanese East Indians and carved out some Indesh in South America ,that will do it,while pondering how to achieve that,they have to realize they live in a Country that have other races,including Africans and their rights are the same as theirs.The idiocy of believing who are more smarter is for the arrogant,there are a few on GNI.

ksazma posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

However, if the PNC continues to treat the AFC as a doormat and it wises up and breaks away from the PNC, then the PPP by a small margin will outperform the PNC. Especially given how hapless this government has been the past two plus years. The AFC will then be able to align itself with whichever side is correct on any particular bill which will restore its mantra as a party for change. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS WILL MATTER IF GRANGER HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT THE FUTURE ELECTIONS WILL GO AS THE ONES BETWEEN 1964 AND 1992.

Let him try to pull that stunt,to be noted, he is no spring chicken.

Django posted:
Prashad posted:

East Indians of Guyana must see themselves as members of their own nation.

Trini East Indians and Surinamese East Indians should link up with Guyanese East Indians and carved out some Indesh in South America ,that will do it,while pondering how to achieve that,they have to realize they live in a Country that have other races,including Africans and their rights are the same as theirs.The idiocy of believing who are more smarter is for the arrogant,there are a few on GNI.

Most of us view racialism on skin colour , while within our own race we are like crab in a barell. 

Prashad should explain why he chose a white man country as home and not INDIA .

Prashad , the ball is in your court to explain.... we wait your explaination .

@Django, AFC wants structured dialogue with PNC-dominated APNU? THAT will only prolong the agony. Meanwhile, at the grassroots level the AFC is losing blood. I won't be surprised to hear that AFC councillors in the NDCs and regional administrations will resign one by one. That would be the next logical move.

Gilbakka posted:

@Django, AFC wants structured dialogue with PNC-dominated APNU? THAT will only prolong the agony. Meanwhile, at the grassroots level the AFC is losing blood. I won't be surprised to hear that AFC councillors in the NDCs and regional administrations will resign one by one. That would be the next logical move.

Granger and the PNC (R) along with their constituents,need to understand with out the AFC they would have been in la..la land forever,Granger's actions are gradually deepening my resentment on how he governs.

Django posted:
Gilbakka posted:

@Django, AFC wants structured dialogue with PNC-dominated APNU? THAT will only prolong the agony. Meanwhile, at the grassroots level the AFC is losing blood. I won't be surprised to hear that AFC councillors in the NDCs and regional administrations will resign one by one. That would be the next logical move.

Granger and the PNC (R) along with their constituents,need to understand with out the AFC they would have been in la..la land forever,Granger actions are gradually deepening my resentment on how he governs.

Gradually, you picking sense from nonsense. I'm confident that coming events will shift you farther from that crappy coalition. I haven't lost patience with you. 

Django posted:
ksazma posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

However, if the PNC continues to treat the AFC as a doormat and it wises up and breaks away from the PNC, then the PPP by a small margin will outperform the PNC. Especially given how hapless this government has been the past two plus years. The AFC will then be able to align itself with whichever side is correct on any particular bill which will restore its mantra as a party for change. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS WILL MATTER IF GRANGER HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT THE FUTURE ELECTIONS WILL GO AS THE ONES BETWEEN 1964 AND 1992.

Let him try to pull that stunt,to be noted, he is no spring chicken.

Old ppl like Granger thinks god telling him to do whatever he is doing. Examine Mugabe, he wanted to give his young wife power. Forbes gave Viola power and Cheedie gave Janet power and Jagdeo gave Ramotaur power. Maybe Granger has some concubines to choose from. Commenting on the spring chicken part. 

Granger is not part of the old PNC, he did confided once to Tamesh ... he is under lots of pressure from Congress place. No douth he is a racist but he is a honest man .

a few years ago at Congress place his car was surrounded by blacks and his security had to lock the gate for his safety. 

seignet posted:
Django posted:
ksazma posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

However, if the PNC continues to treat the AFC as a doormat and it wises up and breaks away from the PNC, then the PPP by a small margin will outperform the PNC. Especially given how hapless this government has been the past two plus years. The AFC will then be able to align itself with whichever side is correct on any particular bill which will restore its mantra as a party for change. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS WILL MATTER IF GRANGER HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT THE FUTURE ELECTIONS WILL GO AS THE ONES BETWEEN 1964 AND 1992.

Let him try to pull that stunt,to be noted, he is no spring chicken.

Old ppl like Granger thinks god telling him to do whatever he is doing. Examine Mugabe, he wanted to give his young wife power. Forbes gave Viola power and Cheedie gave Janet power and Jagdeo gave Ramotaur power. Maybe Granger has some concubines to choose from. Commenting on the spring chicken part. 

Siggy, the way you frame your points, a stranger to Guyana might think that Ramotar is Jagdeo's wife or concubine. 

Gilbakka posted:
seignet posted:
Django posted:
ksazma posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

The AFC should be run out of every East Indian community in Guyana. As for Rankirani I hope that the PPP never taste that Apple again.

Bhai,when will you realize the East Indian votes for the PPP willn't cut the mustard,same goes for the PNC with Afro votes,the population dynamics of Guyana have changed during the past 25 yrs,the growing Mixed and Amerindian population have a lot of power,depending on where they throw their weight,that party will win.

However, if the PNC continues to treat the AFC as a doormat and it wises up and breaks away from the PNC, then the PPP by a small margin will outperform the PNC. Especially given how hapless this government has been the past two plus years. The AFC will then be able to align itself with whichever side is correct on any particular bill which will restore its mantra as a party for change. BUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS WILL MATTER IF GRANGER HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT THE FUTURE ELECTIONS WILL GO AS THE ONES BETWEEN 1964 AND 1992.

Let him try to pull that stunt,to be noted, he is no spring chicken.

Old ppl like Granger thinks god telling him to do whatever he is doing. Examine Mugabe, he wanted to give his young wife power. Forbes gave Viola power and Cheedie gave Janet power and Jagdeo gave Ramotaur power. Maybe Granger has some concubines to choose from. Commenting on the spring chicken part. 

Siggy, the way you frame your points, a stranger to Guyana might think that Ramotar is Jagdeo's wife or concubine. 

Deliberate manishness on my part.

Dave posted:

Granger is not part of the old PNC, he did confided once to Tamesh ... he is under lots of pressure from Congress place. No douth he is a racist but he is a honest man .

a few years ago at Congress place his car was surrounded by blacks and his security had to lock the gate for his safety. 

Granger,needs to show his mettle,he currently have the power,break the backs of the old PNC ,tell them the old ways of the PNC aren't accepted in these times,me thinks he was trying to say that to the gathering in Atlanta.

Dave posted:
Django posted:
Prashad posted:

East Indians of Guyana must see themselves as members of their own nation.

Trini East Indians and Surinamese East Indians should link up with Guyanese East Indians and carved out some Indesh in South America ,that will do it,while pondering how to achieve that,they have to realize they live in a Country that have other races,including Africans and their rights are the same as theirs.The idiocy of believing who are more smarter is for the arrogant,there are a few on GNI.

Most of us view racialism on skin colour , while within our own race we are like crab in a barell. 

Prashad should explain why he chose a white man country as home and not INDIA .

Prashad , the ball is in your court to explain.... we wait your explaination .

Prashad never said that he hated the Christian white man/white woman because it is the Christian white man/white woman who gave Prashad his first job and paid for his University education.  Every year Prashad sends $500 dollars to Hindu organizations and he also help to sponsor a Urdu class for Pakistani poor kids. Prashad deeply loves his culture and heritage thus wants it to survive on Earth.

Yes Gilly I agree. I am just worried for the FILTH HEADS who are only now waking up and smelling the coffee. Some are still hopeful for a PNC Govt they can be proud of. Their graves will come before that happen.

Are they simply naive, stupid and in the case of the Caribjs Racist?? Or are they brainwashed as slaves forever. Did going to school did nothing to improve their brains???/

Django posted:
Dave posted:

Granger is not part of the old PNC, he did confided once to Tamesh ... he is under lots of pressure from Congress place. No douth he is a racist but he is a honest man .

a few years ago at Congress place his car was surrounded by blacks and his security had to lock the gate for his safety. 

Granger,needs to show his mettle,he currently have the power,break the backs of the old PNC ,tell them the old ways of the PNC aren't accepted in these times,me thinks he was trying to say that to the gathering in Atlanta.

HAHAHA Talk about being stupid, illiterate, naive and down right foolish. No one comes close Dumb as a Gadaha!!!

yuji22 posted:

Ramkarran must be smoking weed if he thinks that the power hungry and criminal AFC ministers should resign. That will NEVER happen. 

They will be out of government soon whether they resign or not. Granger doesn't need them anymore. That is why he and Harmon are looking forward for a review of the Accord.

ksazma posted:
yuji22 posted:

Ramkarran must be smoking weed if he thinks that the power hungry and criminal AFC ministers should resign. That will NEVER happen. 

They will be out of government soon whether they resign or not. Granger doesn't need them anymore. That is why he and Harmon are looking forward for a review of the Accord.

The PNC will use any review of the so called accord to further crush the AFC. The AFC consists of a very foolish and amateur lot. Granger outsmarted the AFC from day one by creating the office of the President to consolidate power and keep the AFC as footstools and poodles. 

Nehru posted:
Django posted:
Dave posted:

Granger is not part of the old PNC, he did confided once to Tamesh ... he is under lots of pressure from Congress place. No douth he is a racist but he is a honest man .

a few years ago at Congress place his car was surrounded by blacks and his security had to lock the gate for his safety. 

Granger,needs to show his mettle,he currently have the power,break the backs of the old PNC ,tell them the old ways of the PNC aren't accepted in these times,me thinks he was trying to say that to the gathering in Atlanta.

HAHAHA Talk about being stupid, illiterate, naive and down right foolish. No one comes close Dumb as a Gadaha!!!

Nehru posted:

Does this FOOL know English??  Is he retarded???  Well, if not, he needs to be in Berbice Mad House

Well..what can one expect,your illiteracy is shown with your response,as can be noticed by the contribution of other posters,the conversation was civil.

You had to show up as  "Dumb as a Gadaha!!!"

Seems like you lack the comprehension of the English Language,it's free and never too late,if you don't have some Computer Literacy some can help,firstly try to be polite,it may assist to avoid embarrassing your self on public forums.

AFC remains strong, credible -Ramjattan.

November 27,2017

Source

The Alliance for Change (AFC) has not lost credibility and remains a strong, influential party in the Guyana political arena and will ignore “nonsensical” criticisms and continue to be a servant of all of the people, the party’s Chairman Khemraj Ramjattan says.

He dismissed the assertions of former People’s Progressive Party executive  Ralph Ramkarran, who has said that the AFC should have all of its members resign their Cabinet posts and instead serve as watchdog parliamentarians to ensure the fulfilment of election campaign promises.

Ramkarran contended in his column in yesterday’s Sunday Stabroek that the government’s reluctance to pursue constitutional reform has damaged the credibility of the AFC which has seen it lose key support.

But Ramjattan feels that Ramkarran, who he served alongside when both were PPP/C executives, is just pushing vacuous chatter and posited that Ramkarran’s assertions are not grounded in concretized facts but personal views.

Khemraj Ramjattan
 

“This is a free country and more and more this government is going to ensure that free speech be enjoyed by everybody, even those who can talk the very idiotic and the every insulting and offensive. We are going allow the `chatterati’ to continue to chat and we are not going to block them,” he told Stabroek News yesterday.

“We have a party that is intact. We recently came out of a national conference earlier this year and we also have had our national executive make some fundamentally sound decisions and we are a force in this country’s political landscape,” he added.

In his latest column yesterday, Ramkarran said that the failure of the APNU+AFC coalition go-vernment to proceed with constitutional reform and the AFC’s seeming inability to push this agenda has deprived the party of much of its credibility and raison d’etre.

“If the AFC has been pushing for constitutional reform and the government as a whole has been dragging its feet, the time has come for the AFC ministers to resign from the government,” Ramkarran wrote.

“By resigning its ministries, the AFC will restore some of its credibility and perhaps support. The public will see that for the AFC, political office and the perks are of less importance than political principle; that the AFC is determined to ensure that its policy of the end of racial politics is implemented; and that the AFC is a party of integrity. The new relationship between APNU and the AFC, with the AFC out of the government but its members sitting on the back benches, should be the subject of the new or amended accord, whether negotiated in Cummingsburg or elsewhere, which the AFC is proposing to have with APNU,” he reasoned.

Stabroek News tried to elicit the views of the AFC’s ministers on Ramkarran’s position.

Leader of the Party and Minister of Natural Resources, Raphael Trotman said that he did not read the article as he was out of the capital over the weekend.

Minister of Public Infrastructure, David Patterson, said that he, too, didn’t read the article but that he was not in the habit of reading Ramkarran’s pieces based on several inaccuracies he had penned some time ago.

Minister of Public Telecommunications, Cathy Hughes, said she was dealing with a traumatic family matter and asked that her views be deferred to another time.

Efforts to contact the three other ministers proved futile as calls to their phones went unanswered.

Tremendous support

 

Asked if he felt his party is losing credibility, Ram-jattan replied, “Absolutely not, because of the fact that there is tremendous support for the party.  In difficult times, expectations that people sometimes have for us cannot be met as a result of the difficult times and so on, but like every other political party that was of sound influence, we hold our ground and we will listen to the criticisms, make necessary changes and dust ourselves and go on. But credibility? Who would have lost credibility?”

Pointing to decisions on the closure of some sugar estates in a move to revamp the ailing sugar industry, Ramjattan said that a point could be made about the loss of some support from workers of those estates, a reaction he feels was inevitable regardless of which government was in power.

‘In the sugar industry we had to make a decision on sugar. You can’t bail out sugar all the time and we know that it is going to be unpopular among some but we supported our partner APNU and as a government we had to make that decision. When you lose support because of making the right decision we haven’t lost credibility but might lose out because some people might get angry because they will lose their jobs and so forth but that is to be expected”.

But he believes that Ramkarran’s calling for the giving up of government posts was “foolish for him to say…That is the kind of advice he is going to give the AFC?  What are we doing wrong?” he asked.

Ramkarran’s suggestions also come in wake of the recent criticism the party has faced over its publicly stated support for President David Granger’s unilateral appointment of retired judge James Patterson as the Chairman of the Guyana Elections Commission (Gecom).

Some of that criticism has come from within the party itself, as evidenced by recent leaked emails, which show that some party executives believe that the party’s support for the controversial decision has made it look weak and will likely result in its losing supporters. In particular, Chairman of the AFC’s United States Chapter Dr Rohan Somar noted, “Given the worsening racial polarisation in Guyana, this unilateral appointment by the Executive PNC President of an Afro Guyanese Gecom Chairman, whether right or wrong, rips open the scars of (the) PNC rigging election(s). You have just thrown red meat to the notion of “PNC rigging election” which, in my view, will cause the AFC to forever lose Indo Guyanese support at the poll.”

Somar further stated that the decision by the AFC to accept the unilateral appointment was a major strategic blunder since the situation could have provided the perfect opportunity for the party to stand its ground and “shake the foundation of the PNC dominated coalition and maintain its independence, leverage and credibility.”

In his column, Ramkarran argued that while the AFC has drawn support across the ethnic divide, it was the support from Indo-Guyanese that enabled the APNU+AFC coalition to win the 2015 elections. He added that despite this, the AFC has shown “a palpable lack of understanding” of the depth of fear of Indo-Guyanese and others that APNU will rig the next elections. “The unilateral appointment of a Chair for Gecom exacerbated that fear…,” he said, while noting that the PNC—now the PNCR, which is the main constituent of APNU—rigged elections from 1968 to 1985. “Second, the PNC by itself has never won more than 42 percent of the vote in free and fair elections. Third, the AFC has lost substantial support and its contribution to the coalition at the next elections will be very modest. Fourth, this will keep the coalition below 50 percent. Fifth, in a two-party contest, the PPP will win. The answer? Rig! The AFC’s insensitivity to this scenario and its failure to persuade, or seek to persuade, the President to adopt a different approach to the appointment of the Gecom chair, has lost it substantial credibility,” he contended.

Ramjattan said that the leaked emails cannot be used to speak for a party that has over 10,000 supporters. He called Ramkarran out for his reference to emails stating that it was fiery discussions like in the mails that happen during private meetings of all parties and Ramkarran being privy to this from his time with the PPP should know this.

“That is exactly what happens in a central committee meeting in a room at Freedom House, at least when (Cheddi) Jagan was there. We all used to be critical of positions and this and that. Isn’t that the freedom you want in an internal organization to make the arguments and probably do your cuss down and whatever else you have to do? That is frank deliberation. Now that is being leaked by some rogue elements what is that credibility lost? I don’t know about any credibility being lost,” he said.

He added “Even inside of homogenous parties they have big discussions and cuss downs and all sorts of things. I was inside the belly of the beast of that party and that is very normal. In the PPP, at the district, regional or central executive and committee’s levels, at least with Jagan that was what happened. When Jagdeo turned President he shut down all of them and what he did is shelve Ralph Ramkarran. Ralph kept his mouth shut and then he got shelved and now he talking plenty but let him talk about the PPP,” he added.

He said that his own history shows that it is for his passionate convictions of wanting better for the underprivileged and marginalized masses of Guyana that saw him being one of the successful founders of the AFC.

“At least I have formed a party and we have gotten the PPP thrown out. If he wants to be a politician he should go form a party and then know what it is,” Ramjattan asserted.

“These fellas love to talk from a distance like parrot. You know parrot telling donkey how to bat but stays up in the tree. They want to stay up in the tree and not come down to do the batting themselves. You write exactly what I say there”, he added.

@Django

AFC remains strong, credible -Ramjattan.

Seems like Ramjattan lives in an ivory tower or has his head in the sand. The whole country knows otherwise. Today's Stabroek News Editorial says: "It has taken only 30 months for the AFC to be ensheathed in the worst crisis of its 12-year history with deep divisions and its wheels threatening to fall off. Not only did the AFC fail to put in place a mechanism to keep its partner in line, address the insecurities of all the country’s people and ensure fairness in hiring and assigning of senior positions but its three top leaders Messrs Khemraj Ramjattan, PM Moses Nagamootoo and Raphael Trotman patently became enraptured by the trappings and power of office and neglected their responsibilities to their constituency."

David Hinds in today's Kaieteur News says: "He opined that once in office, the AFC soon forgot about the political dynamics that brought them into Government. “They never sought to balance the exercise of ministerial office with holding together the tenuous dynamics within the party…they became power-drunk. Here were great patriots who had put up their hands to be counted, but apart from Nagamootoo and to some extent Ramjattan, they had no history of struggle and sacrifice—they came to politics from the top.”
“In the end, they ignored their reason for being. They had no conversations with that fragile Indian constituency that brought them to office — they did not try to broaden it. They spent more time in Georgetown than on the Corentyne, West Berbice and Essequibo. The party functioned through the ministries. The never sought to serve as a check on the PNC. Perhaps they couldn’t, since they had played all their cards in the negotiations of the Cummingsburg Accord.”

Well said Gil.

Ramjattan attacks on Ralph is similar to the mad elephant's disease. The AFC is indeed dead meat, Ramjattan's survival depends on Granger's rigging. 

The more Ramjattan speaks the more he exposes himself as an arrogant and scampish individual. Imagine him attacking individuals who provided the necessary funding to get the AFC where it was at it's peak.

There is no question about Granger's rigging but the biggest question is whether Granger will still keep him after the rigging ?

Talk about Neemakharism.

Ramjattan and Moses are protecting their seats in parliament .... these idiots don’t care about other AFC members .

they have a good pension and fat pay cheque . 

Rumjat knows black people will protect him on the streets, so to hell with the poor Indians .

Dave posted:

Ramjattan and Moses are protecting their seats in parliament .... these idiots don’t care about other AFC members .

they have a good pension and fat pay cheque . 

Rumjat knows black people will protect him on the streets, so to hell with the poor Indians .

Dave,

We need to question AFC members about taking back the AFC. We need to look back at those who left the PPP to join the AFC because they claimed that the reason for leaving was that Jagdeo hijacked the PPP.

Now that Moses, Trotman and Ramjattan hijacked the AFC, what are they doing about it ?

It may appear as if a vast majority  of these people came back home to the PPP. Ramjattan claimed that the AFC had 10,000 members or supporters and given that they returned home back to the PPP, then APNU does not stand a chance of winning a free and fair election.

If we were to put two and two together, Granger's biggest fear is that APNU cannot win a free and fair election again and his only option to stay in power is to rig and implement a dictatorship machinery of which he is quite familiar with.

Guyanese have been Royally screwed by Moses and Ramjattan. The stench of their arrogance and scampishness is unbearable. 

Mitwah recently posted the he no longer supports APNU but remained silent about his support for the AFC. The question is what percentage of AFC supporters like Mitwah still exists ?

Gilbakka posted:

I endorse every sentence Ralph Ramkarran writes in his CONVERSATION TREE article. Thanks for posting, Django.

This is a more productive response than yours is as you hear your tribal drums beating and flee back to your plantation.

At this point in time NEITHER the PPP nor APNU deserve any support as both have been in breach of their promises to reform and remove Burnham's constitution.

Noteworthy is the fact that he concedes that there is an African "victimhood" narrative alongside the Indian one.  Though as usual we see no evidence that he understands that addressing this is as important as addressing the Indian one. 

The fact remains that both insecurities reinforce the other as many Africans will endorse rigging, as they did in the 70s, as the cost of preventing Indo domination of all facets of life in Guyana. 

So if Indians wish to prevent tacit support for rigging they need to understand their need t9o focus as much on the Indian "victimhood" narrative as they demand that non Indians attend to theirs.

As the Indian population heads towards being a mere 35% their leverage over the political system declines.

yuji22 posted:

Ramjattan attacks on Ralph is similar to the mad elephant's disease. The AFC is indeed dead meat, Ramjattan's survival depends on Granger's rigging.

Not really; PNC will not need AFC/Ramjattan as they will most likely "rig the elections and votes" to become the sole governing party, similar to what the PNC did to the United Force in the 1970's

Demerara_Guy posted:
yuji22 posted:

Ramjattan attacks on Ralph is similar to the mad elephant's disease. The AFC is indeed dead meat, Ramjattan's survival depends on Granger's rigging.

Not really; PNC will not need AFC/Ramjattan as they will most likely "rig the elections and votes" to become the sole governing party, similar to what the PNC did to the United Force in the 1970's

I do not disagree with you. I should have stated:Ramjattan's survival in the short term depends on Granger's rigging.

Yes, he will be kicked to the curb in due course, history and karma never fails.

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