AFC `hijacked’ by pro-PNC faction- Henry Jeffrey

The Alliance For Change (AFC) has been “hijacked” by the pro-PNC faction in its executive, according to political analyst, Dr Henry Jeffrey.

Writing in his Future Notes column in Wednesday’s edition of Stabroek News, Jeffrey cited the recent upheaval that had buffeted the governing coalition partner over the unilateral selection of a Gecom Chairman and which led to the withdrawal of its Canadian arm.

Noting that the AFC’s declared purpose on formation in 2005 was to “bridge the racial divide that had resulted from the dominance of the two major ethnic parties (PPP/C and PNCR)” and to transform governance, Jeffrey asserted that the party has not delivered and is now on the defensive. 

“..here we are today: notwithstanding all the promises, governance, far from being transformed appears now set upon a dangerously reactionary course. Indeed, with the AFC firmly asleep in bed with the PNCR, the leader of the latter took to a National Assembly made turbulent by his unilateral decision to select the chairperson of Gecom, trying to hood-wink the Guyanese people that the coalition is ushering in opportunities and laying ‘the basis for a system of inclusionary democracy!’ How and why did this occur?”

 

Columnist Ralph Ramkarran in his column in the last Sunday Stabroek had also criticised President David Granger’s address to Parliament for suggesting that the coalition’s brand of governance was `winner-does-not-take-it-all’.

Jeffrey, who has had a long association with both the PNCR and the PPP/C,  argued that the core of the Canadian chapter’s quarrel with the AFC was that it is managed by an unresponsive oligarchy.

“One only needs to look at how stable their leaderships are to recognise that usually all political parties based upon similar archaic organisational arrangements are oligarchies that behave similarly. Indeed, given its multiethnic nature and the general hostility many in the membership felt against both the PNC and PPP, the decision to join with the PNC, matters not how necessary to oust the PPP/C, was bound to be viewed with suspicion. Nonetheless, it was seen by many both internally and externally as a sensible exercise of leadership.  The problem is that the vast majority of those who supported the PNCR/AFC alliance considered it as a relatively short/medium term arrangement to dislodge the PPP/C and implement constitutional reforms and this would have kept the party independent and vibrant in keeping with its founding credo”, Jeffrey stated.

However, Jeffrey said what makes the oligarchy now in charge of the AFC appear more estranged from its membership is that the visions that at present move it and the membership are now miles apart.

 “While the membership is still largely motivated by the original vision of an independent party, the leadership now sees its future as intricately and permanently linked to that of the coalition with APNU, and this cannot be successfully explained to the whole membership. The party has been hijacked by the PNC faction lodged in the oligarchy!”, Jeffrey declared.

He said that a good indication of this is found in the fact that the vitality of the AFC as an independent party rests upon some of the most popular aspects of proposed constitutional reform, e.g., post-election coalitions and more autonomous constituencies.

“Yet the victory of the pro-PNC oligarchs has been so decisive that this instrument of the AFC’s liberation and development has been placed in its own hands without its being able to utilise it. Indeed, the AFC’s leadership finds itself in the invidious position of having to publicly justify the ‘progress’ the coalition has made on constitutional reform!”, Jeffrey charged.

A promise by the APNU+AFC coalition of rapid constitutional reform within months of taking office has collapsed. Two and a half years later nothing has begun.

While noting that politics is a dynamic process and things could change Jeffrey said it appeared to him that the AFC oligarchs who lost the contest for leadership of the party have obviously made their peace with the current arrangements office has collapsed. Two and a half years later nothing has begun.

While noting that politics is a dynamic process and things could change Jeffrey said it appeared to him that the AFC oligarchs who lost the contest for leadership of the party have obviously made their peace with the current arrangements something substantial?  But perhaps our political history contains a hopeful lesson for the alienated membership of the AFC. It is said that the party originated in a desire to recreate the 1950s Jagan/Burnham – Ramjattan/Trotman – experiment with national unity and if so, its reemergence may also be located there. On that occasion the split in the oligarchy that controlled the PPP led to Forbes Burnham’s defeat; a split in the party and his subsequent formation of the PNC”, Jeffrey noted.

The AFC is currently being led by former PNCR MP Raphael Trotman. He was a surprise winner at the party’s elections earlier this year over the incumbent Khemraj Ramjattan, a former PPP/C MP. Originally it has been a three-way race for leadership along with Prime Minister Moses Nagamootoo but he withdrew shortly before the election.

The AFC says it was not consulted on Granger’s controversial selection of retired Justice James Patterson as Chairman. However, at the meeting at State House at which Opposition Leader Bharrat Jagdeo was notified, Trotman was present. Neither Trotman nor the AFC has said in what capacity he was present at that meeting. Trotman.

SOURCE = Stabroek News

Original Post

Supporters of the PPP should examine options for starting an alternative party.

Source

November 9,2017

Dear Editor,

Mr. Jagdeo and the PPP have been making a lot of public noise recently as they try to capitalize on some of the coalition’s mishandling of a number of major issues.  While the Coalition has indeed provided ample reason to question their government, supporters of the PPP should also remember that the PPP failed Guyanese on a number of crucial areas while seeming to take advantage of their supporters’ own allegiance.  Some of the issues we would do well to remember, and why also the supporters of the PPP should reconsider their support for their party and examine options for starting an alternative party are:

  1. Under the PPP administration GuySuCo’s profitability eroded during the last 10 years of its government, jeopardizing the welfare of sugar workers. Although this was partly due to the reduction in prices offered for sugar by the EU, Mr. Jagdeo’s personal involvement in the decision to sink US$200 million into the Skeldon operations was very probably the final straw for GuySuCo as allegations surfaced that he disregarded advice which would have seen him choosing a more reputable and experienced Indian firm at a lower cost.  Plans to address the corporation’s diversification were dragged out and yielded little up until the PPP’s exit in 2015 when the corporation required financial support from taxpayers.  Although the current administration has recently committed to not shutting down its operations, the corporation’s future remains in question as many workers’ issues remain unresolved.
  2. The PPP’s embrace of corruption reached such proportions that it creeped into the major organizations overseeing the operations of the rice sector. Allegations were made of payments being made to select supporters while many other rice farmers were placed in financial difficulties as they were underpaid for their produce, or payments were delayed inordinate amounts of time.
  3. The PPP administration demonstrated disdain and disregard for both public and private sector workers from 1999 onwards, neglecting to recognize that many of Guyana’s workers suffered tremendously as a result of the policy reforms which were a result of the economic transformation that was effected to address Guyana’s economic crisis coming out of the 1980s. Even after the first fifteen years in office, the PPP administration consistently handed out annual increases of the order of 5 per cent to public servants.  Govern-ment’s wages policies heavily influenced that of the private sector so that today, much of Guyana’s work force get by on depressed wages.
  4. A declared socialist based party, the PPP from its early years in office frustrated investment prospects which could have done much to reduce unemployment levels, raise incomes and potentially raise Guyana’s status internationally. The fruits of its efforts in this direction were brought to bear as Guyana’s economic growth averaged 0.6 per cent from 1999 when Mr. Jagdeo took office to 2004, the year prior to the flood. A memorable instance was that of a Malaysian company, where that company’s machinery was left so long uncleared by the GRA that decay set in and the company threatened to withdraw from the country.
  5. Many of the so-called foreign direct investment schemes during the PPP’s terms were in fact dressing to quell claims by the opposition that the PPP government was not doing enough to attract investment, stimulate economic growth and address our crucial unemployment issues. The investment in Linden yielded little or nothing for the town and Guyana.  The highly touted Bai Shan Lin venture was subject to claims of corruption which included undervaluing of exports and massive duty waivers, which in total amounted to an abuse of Guyana’s resources by this company.
  6. Petty corruption on a massive scale became part and parcel of government operations as businesses and private individuals were routinely placed over a barrel to have their imports processed and many other government services provided.
  7. The press has documented instances of allegations of the PPP’s involvement with, and solicitation of the services of individuals linked to narcotics and crime. This practice along with the administration’s record on corruption effectively put a damper on investment in Guyana.   International organizations had also made claims of the government facilitating money laundering and narcotics activity, which exacerbated negative perceptions about Guyana internationally.
  8. A few of the PPP’s ministers had gone beyond the law, but had never been brought to justice. This disregard and abuse of our laws by the PPP is one of the bigger issues which stands against the PPP ever returning to office.
  9. The PPP sought to dominate the media by rationing its advertisements in the press. To widen its influence on the public domain it made selective issuances of radio licences to a number of its supporters.  The local media, particularly Channel 6, endured intimidation as the station continually embarrassed the government on numerous issues.
  10. Finally, the PPP’s penchant for misusing taxpayers’ money is very probably unsurpassed and unmatched in the Caribbean region, from the misuse of NIS funds to build the Berbice bridge, which now costs so much as to make travel for some prohibitive, to the Marriott fiasco which needs no further disclosure here.

These are the main issues the supporters of the PPP need to consider before throwing their weight behind the PPP again.  Because if the PPP were ever allowed back into office again, it is an almost certainty that they will pick up exactly where they left off.

Yours faithfully,

Craig Sylvester

PM picketed by PPP/C supporters at Berbice school graduations

Source

Nov.9,2017

Django posted:

Supporters of the PPP should examine options for starting an alternative party.

Source

November 9,2017

Dear Editor,

Mr. Jagdeo and the PPP have been making a lot of public noise recently as they try to capitalize on some of the coalition’s mishandling of a number of major issues.  While the Coalition has indeed provided ample reason to question their government, supporters of the PPP should also remember that the PPP failed Guyanese on a number of crucial areas while seeming to take advantage of their supporters’ own allegiance.  Some of the issues we would do well to remember, and why also the supporters of the PPP should reconsider their support for their party and examine options for starting an alternative party are:

  1. Under the PPP administration GuySuCo’s profitability eroded during the last 10 years of its government, jeopardizing the welfare of sugar workers. Although this was partly due to the reduction in prices offered for sugar by the EU, Mr. Jagdeo’s personal involvement in the decision to sink US$200 million into the Skeldon operations was very probably the final straw for GuySuCo as allegations surfaced that he disregarded advice which would have seen him choosing a more reputable and experienced Indian firm at a lower cost.  Plans to address the corporation’s diversification were dragged out and yielded little up until the PPP’s exit in 2015 when the corporation required financial support from taxpayers.  Although the current administration has recently committed to not shutting down its operations, the corporation’s future remains in question as many workers’ issues remain unresolved.
  2. The PPP’s embrace of corruption reached such proportions that it creeped into the major organizations overseeing the operations of the rice sector. Allegations were made of payments being made to select supporters while many other rice farmers were placed in financial difficulties as they were underpaid for their produce, or payments were delayed inordinate amounts of time.
  3. The PPP administration demonstrated disdain and disregard for both public and private sector workers from 1999 onwards, neglecting to recognize that many of Guyana’s workers suffered tremendously as a result of the policy reforms which were a result of the economic transformation that was effected to address Guyana’s economic crisis coming out of the 1980s. Even after the first fifteen years in office, the PPP administration consistently handed out annual increases of the order of 5 per cent to public servants.  Govern-ment’s wages policies heavily influenced that of the private sector so that today, much of Guyana’s work force get by on depressed wages.
  4. A declared socialist based party, the PPP from its early years in office frustrated investment prospects which could have done much to reduce unemployment levels, raise incomes and potentially raise Guyana’s status internationally. The fruits of its efforts in this direction were brought to bear as Guyana’s economic growth averaged 0.6 per cent from 1999 when Mr. Jagdeo took office to 2004, the year prior to the flood. A memorable instance was that of a Malaysian company, where that company’s machinery was left so long uncleared by the GRA that decay set in and the company threatened to withdraw from the country.
  5. Many of the so-called foreign direct investment schemes during the PPP’s terms were in fact dressing to quell claims by the opposition that the PPP government was not doing enough to attract investment, stimulate economic growth and address our crucial unemployment issues. The investment in Linden yielded little or nothing for the town and Guyana.  The highly touted Bai Shan Lin venture was subject to claims of corruption which included undervaluing of exports and massive duty waivers, which in total amounted to an abuse of Guyana’s resources by this company.
  6. Petty corruption on a massive scale became part and parcel of government operations as businesses and private individuals were routinely placed over a barrel to have their imports processed and many other government services provided.
  7. The press has documented instances of allegations of the PPP’s involvement with, and solicitation of the services of individuals linked to narcotics and crime. This practice along with the administration’s record on corruption effectively put a damper on investment in Guyana.   International organizations had also made claims of the government facilitating money laundering and narcotics activity, which exacerbated negative perceptions about Guyana internationally.
  8. A few of the PPP’s ministers had gone beyond the law, but had never been brought to justice. This disregard and abuse of our laws by the PPP is one of the bigger issues which stands against the PPP ever returning to office.
  9. The PPP sought to dominate the media by rationing its advertisements in the press. To widen its influence on the public domain it made selective issuances of radio licences to a number of its supporters.  The local media, particularly Channel 6, endured intimidation as the station continually embarrassed the government on numerous issues.
  10. Finally, the PPP’s penchant for misusing taxpayers’ money is very probably unsurpassed and unmatched in the Caribbean region, from the misuse of NIS funds to build the Berbice bridge, which now costs so much as to make travel for some prohibitive, to the Marriott fiasco which needs no further disclosure here.

These are the main issues the supporters of the PPP need to consider before throwing their weight behind the PPP again.  Because if the PPP were ever allowed back into office again, it is an almost certainty that they will pick up exactly where they left off.

Yours faithfully,

Craig Sylvester

Hey Django, you and Craig can haul y'all behinds. Y'all want to 'devide' the PPP but we the people will multiply membership and stand united.

Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

Who are you?

Gilly is Django chota bhai.

That's enough for you.

Django posted:

PM picketed by PPP/C supporters at Berbice school graduations

Source

Nov.9,2017

this is all the collie people jagdeo can pay come on guys from GNI haul your ass in guyana and help your mouth cannot do it here

Gilbakka posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

Who are you?

Gilly is Django chota bhai.

That's enough for you.

Rass , understand if you don’t want to identify yourself . I asked, cause I know Shaw personally .. and seeing your association with PPP , was trying to fit the puzzle .

knowing the books you read .. I can read between the lines . I was train by Beast

Gilbakka posted:
Django posted:

Supporters of the PPP should examine options for starting an alternative party.

Source

November 9,2017

 

Craig Sylvester

Hey Django, you and Craig can haul y'all behinds. Y'all want to 'devide' the PPP but we the people will multiply membership and stand united.

Change the leader!! membership will increase by umpteen folds.

 

Supporters of the PPP should examine options for starting an alternative party.

Source

November 9,2017

Dear Editor,

Mr. Jagdeo and the PPP have been making a lot of public noise recently as they try to capitalize on some of the coalition’s mishandling of a number of major issues.  While the Coalition has indeed provided ample reason to question their government, supporters of the PPP should also remember that the PPP failed Guyanese on a number of crucial areas while seeming to take advantage of their supporters’ own allegiance.  Some of the issues we would do well to remember, and why also the supporters of the PPP should reconsider their support for their party and examine options for starting an alternative party... 

Yours faithfully,

Craig Sylvester

Yesterday, Trump, hoping to get Democratic support for the new tax plan told 5 Democratic leaders that his accountant told him that his taxes will get killed by the new tax plan. Looks like Craig Sylvester is pursuing the same con. Apparently he is worried by an intact and unified PPP. 

Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Madam,why are you giving out hints about people info ?

Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Django posted:
Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Frank Anthony is from Enmore.  

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Django posted:
Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Frank Anthony is from Enmore.  

Suh you telling to make connection with Frank, maybe i can get info to connect with my old friend.

Bibi Haniffa posted:
Django posted:
Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Frank Anthony is from Enmore.  

you have your information wrong 

The PPP need to rebrand them self if they hope to win the next election and stand out against the PNC.

jagdeo need a back seat... provide guidance ... but not a dictator attitude .

lets be real .... should guyana be divide  between Indian and blacks . Majority of Indians  would not want Jagdeo as their leader .

jagdeo pushing his ass on the front line like Indian saviour is doing harm to the ppp currently , but he appear as the “king “because Indians and a section of other races have no other political party to turn to.

should he stop been selfish , he should bring Nigel Hudge as the presidential candidate and Frank Anthony as the Prime Minister . Nigel would have protesters every night at Gecom office . 

PNC is not afraid of PPP .

The pack of idiots jagdeo has around him needs to go. You don’t curse the hand that feeds you ... they after the US at every opportunity .

with a rebrand of PPP , it will be seen as a people’s party , and that’s what Guyanese want ... no division .

 

 

 

Django posted:
Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Know a few people , was me hangout area 

warrior posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Django posted:
Dave posted:
Bibi Haniffa posted:
Dave posted:
Gilbakka posted:

Since PNC hijacked  AFC

And since  PNC hijacked   APNU

And  since  PNC hijacked  GECOM Chair

Therefore  PNC will  hijack 2020 voting.

SIMPLE  ARITHMETIC

 

Gilly ... are you Mamood Shaw 

No. Mamood Shaw is from Dundee, Mahaicony.  Gilly is not from deh.

Shaw from Enmore

Bhai,you know people from Enmore,i am trying to connect with an old friend,can you help?

Frank Anthony is from Enmore.  

you have your information wrong 

Nope , I know where Shaw is living . Shaw Son in law is from dundee

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

Dave posted:

The PPP need to rebrand them self if they hope to win the next election and stand out against the PNC.

jagdeo need a back seat... provide guidance ... but not a dictator attitude .

lets be real .... should guyana be divide  between Indian and blacks . Majority of Indians  would not want Jagdeo as their leader .

jagdeo pushing his ass on the front line like Indian saviour is doing harm to the ppp currently , but he appear as the “king “because Indians and a section of other races have no other political party to turn to.

should he stop been selfish , he should bring Nigel Hudge as the presidential candidate and Frank Anthony as the Prime Minister . Nigel would have protesters every night at Gecom office . 

PNC is not afraid of PPP .

The pack of idiots jagdeo has around him needs to go. You don’t curse the hand that feeds you ... they after the US at every opportunity .

with a rebrand of PPP , it will be seen as a people’s party , and that’s what Guyanese want ... no division .

 

 

 

this is positive or indians and guyana going through a next 28 yrs  

yuji22 posted:

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

well well we reaching common grounds i am scare 

warrior posted:
Dave posted:

The PPP need to rebrand them self if they hope to win the next election and stand out against the PNC.

jagdeo need a back seat... provide guidance ... but not a dictator attitude .

lets be real .... should guyana be divide  between Indian and blacks . Majority of Indians  would not want Jagdeo as their leader .

jagdeo pushing his ass on the front line like Indian saviour is doing harm to the ppp currently , but he appear as the “king “because Indians and a section of other races have no other political party to turn to.

should he stop been selfish , he should bring Nigel Hudge as the presidential candidate and Frank Anthony as the Prime Minister . Nigel would have protesters every night at Gecom office . 

PNC is not afraid of PPP .

The pack of idiots jagdeo has around him needs to go. You don’t curse the hand that feeds you ... they after the US at every opportunity .

with a rebrand of PPP , it will be seen as a people’s party , and that’s what Guyanese want ... no division .

 

 

 

this is positive or indians and guyana going through a next 28 yrs  

Absolutely , Only Indian businessmen will be rich , the majority of Indians will continue to suffer and they will blame PNC and not seeing is Jagdeo suppressing their livelihood .

yuji22 posted:

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

The protester need to focus their attention at Freedom house and put the pressure their . 

Dave posted:
yuji22 posted:

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

The protester need to focus their attention at Freedom house and put the pressure their . 

time to educate the people start the program jagdeo is bad news

 

Dave posted:
yuji22 posted:

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

The protester need to focus their attention at Freedom house and put the pressure their . 

Well, Not quite that way. Political maturity has to be displayed. The last thing is to see the PPP putting forward a divided house, the PNC and critics will pounce on that.

The executives at FreeDumb House needs to be put on notice that it is time to end this emotional attachment to a particular politician and that it is time for rebranding and a new leader.

Failing that, then the grassroots can take on FreeDumb House.

It has to be done intelligently. An overthrow at FreeDumb House might be required. The process has to start soon.

yuji22 posted:
Dave posted:
yuji22 posted:

Dave,

Rebranding is EXTREMELY important. The FreeDumb house needs wake up and smell the coffee. Granger and the PNC are like a low hanging fruits.

Jagdeo needs to step aside and let the rebranding start by next summer at the latest. 

Guyana needs to end this tit for tat and unite the country for good.

Good call Dave.

The protester need to focus their attention at Freedom house and put the pressure their . 

Well, Not quite that way. Political maturity has to be displayed. The last thing is to see the PPP putting forward a divided house, the PNC and critics will pounce on that.

The executives at FreeDumb House needs to be put on notice that it is time to end this emotional attachment to a particular politician and that it is time for rebranding and a new leader.

Failing that, then the grassroots can take on FreeDumb House.

It has to be done intelligently. An overthrow at FreeDumb House might be required. The process has to start soon.

affirmative action guyana need this do not wait until its too late 

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Both Moses and Ramjattan should resign out of respect for Guyanese Indians. 

Priya Manichand had said, "we know, you all doan like us", meaning blacks doan like cooolie people. Today, I agree with her. A call to any government agency will soon quality her sattement. If is a black man at the other end of phone and a coolie on the end, the conversation becomes confrontational-as if the coolie has no business to do with Guyana. I witnessed this behaviour some years ago when some black government folks came to meet with the diaspora in Toronto.

Jagdeo and the PPP is a people who endured PNC wrong doings as children growing up in Guyana. I now, also understands their behaviour. 

Indians will have a very difficult time in Guyana. And those Indians who are free, they should pay heed to what is going on with their people. 

Zed posted:

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

 

I agree with you. Django is getting Machiavellian and crafty for an "independent" poster. I notice he has become a proficient peddler of red herring. Gilly is guilty of buying some from him but I will be alert next time and call him out.

Thanks for your criticism.

seignet posted:
Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Both Moses and Ramjattan should resign out of respect for Guyanese Indians. 

Priya Manichand had said, "we know, you all doan like us", meaning blacks doan like cooolie people. Today, I agree with her. A call to any government agency will soon quality her sattement. If is a black man at the other end of phone and a coolie on the end, the conversation becomes confrontational-as if the coolie has no business to do with Guyana. I witnessed this behaviour some years ago when some black government folks came to meet with the diaspora in Toronto.

Jagdeo and the PPP is a people who endured PNC wrong doings as children growing up in Guyana. I now, also understands their behaviour. 

Indians will have a very difficult time in Guyana. And those Indians who are free, they should pay heed to what is going on with their people. 

So it's all about the PPP and East Indians,and the rest who doesn't conform with the them,can go to hell.

No wonder that Country is Politically screwed.

seignet posted:
Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Both Moses and Ramjattan should resign out of respect for Guyanese Indians. 

Priya Manichand had said, "we know, you all doan like us", meaning blacks doan like cooolie people. Today, I agree with her. A call to any government agency will soon quality her sattement. If is a black man at the other end of phone and a coolie on the end, the conversation becomes confrontational-as if the coolie has no business to do with Guyana. I witnessed this behaviour some years ago when some black government folks came to meet with the diaspora in Toronto.

Jagdeo and the PPP is a people who endured PNC wrong doings as children growing up in Guyana. I now, also understands their behaviour. 

Indians will have a very difficult time in Guyana. And those Indians who are free, they should pay heed to what is going on with their people. 

Should Rumjat and Naga resign...which  the PNC is hoping for , granger has the authority to put anyone in position.

this part of the constitution was change by the ppp , and of course pnc couldn’t wait for such an opportunity .

the ppp again at their stupidness trying to be nice boy .

Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Zed , I am suprise Gill the most talented with ppp policy didn’t address this .

the people do not elect ppp leader .

firstly , there is party group meeting , these are the grass root . They would hear what the people say in regards to who they want has leader and relate to the regional group .

the regional group then present their case to the regional council group . At this group, they would elect the party leader or make any changes to ppp policy , however, not because a leader has majority votes mean the council body will elect him . They put who they want .

thats why naga and Ralf was pissed of and left the party . When ramotar was elected , he was not the person but ramkaran should be there . 

The party regional council is highjack by Jagdeo and ramotar 

a point to note ... Ramkaran don’t mix and interact with the grass root ... this was his biggest down fall .

During Dr Jagan time , he always say ppp is not a Indian party , but we have some mudhead who believe the majority in the country is Indians and they will be in government for life . 

They ignore their grass root and did more development in Afro neighbourhood and left the development of Indian village to raise funds for a better lively hood .

At this stage is when ppp boys become over nite contractors ... history speaks for it self now .

guyana don’t need division , it’s not one race in the bloody country . 

Prashad posted:

Like Ralph and his side kick Jeff Henry are angry. No jobs from Granjir.

To his credit, Ralph never endorsed APNU+AFC in 2015 even after I asked him to do so by email. He told me he wanted to retain his independence. And Ralph doesn't need a Granger job. He has done well on his own. 

Granger has already created an atmosphere of severe division in the society. I can see major protests demanding free elections and violence perpetrated at the leaders of the main opposition and its supporters.  Amerindians will not be spared if they don't comply with the orders of APNU. Remember, people did not have to vote for the PNC to win in elections from 68 to 85.  The electoral machine was in control of the PNC and it is back in the hands of them again. God Help Guyana!

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:

Granger has already created an atmosphere of severe division in the society. I can see major protests demanding free elections and violence perpetrated at the leaders of the main opposition and its supporters.  Amerindians will not be spared if they don't comply with the orders of APNU. Remember, people did not have to vote for the PNC to win in elections from 68 to 85.  The electoral machine was in control of the PNC and it is back in the hands of them again. God Help Guyana!

Why put the blame only at granger feet .  The PPP is to blame for granger to be in office . Let’s not put a particular race to the problems . 

PPP insult the Americans and they should never do so and they continue to do the same .

They insult their diehard supporters . Nagamootoo and Ralf did not want to leave the party the fought for . Ralf did the gentle man thing and didn’t support AFC . Naga was bitter and he supports AFC. 

The ppp is responsible for the formation of AFC

Jagdeo belief he has the solution to the country problems , where is he today . He spends more time hugging and kissing up in the street now as oppose to when he was in government . Don’t get me wrong , I have nothing personal against the man , he is a charismatic leader as oppose to granger .( I was at his weeding ). 

there is bitterness in people as to how he runs the country .  

 

 

Gilbakka posted:
Prashad posted:

Like Ralph and his side kick Jeff Henry are angry. No jobs from Granjir.

To his credit, Ralph never endorsed APNU+AFC in 2015 even after I asked him to do so by email. He told me he wanted to retain his independence. And Ralph doesn't need a Granger job. He has done well on his own. 

When Dr.Jagan offered him a portfolio in 1992 he also refused. Dr.Jagan wanted to assign him constitutional reform duties. At that time he was also doing well on his own with many lucrative deals with overseas entities. 

Django posted:
seignet posted:
Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Both Moses and Ramjattan should resign out of respect for Guyanese Indians. 

Priya Manichand had said, "we know, you all doan like us", meaning blacks doan like cooolie people. Today, I agree with her. A call to any government agency will soon quality her sattement. If is a black man at the other end of phone and a coolie on the end, the conversation becomes confrontational-as if the coolie has no business to do with Guyana. I witnessed this behaviour some years ago when some black government folks came to meet with the diaspora in Toronto.

Jagdeo and the PPP is a people who endured PNC wrong doings as children growing up in Guyana. I now, also understands their behaviour. 

Indians will have a very difficult time in Guyana. And those Indians who are free, they should pay heed to what is going on with their people. 

So it's all about the PPP and East Indians,and the rest who doesn't conform with the them,can go to hell.

No wonder that Country is Politically screwed.

Black ppl started it off that way. They are back at it again. I expected better from them. There are no excuses for Indians, dem sort of individualistic while black folks are more corporate. But Granger is/was a racist and his whole government is racist.

comrade posted:
Gilbakka posted:
Prashad posted:

Like Ralph and his side kick Jeff Henry are angry. No jobs from Granjir.

To his credit, Ralph never endorsed APNU+AFC in 2015 even after I asked him to do so by email. He told me he wanted to retain his independence. And Ralph doesn't need a Granger job. He has done well on his own. 

When Dr.Jagan offered him a portfolio in 1992 he also refused. Dr.Jagan wanted to assign him constitutional reform duties. At that time he was also doing well on his own with many lucrative deals with overseas entities. 

He was a PNC operative making tons of money on Hoyte's ERP.

Django posted:
Dave posted:

 Don’t get me wrong , I have nothing personal against the man , he is a charismatic leader as oppose to granger .( I was at his weeding )

Suh you gave your blessings to the fake wedding.

I wouldn’t say his marriage was fake , that’s speculation . 

I knew his father in law ( who was a dedicated ppp would show up at freedom house and openly insult them for the crap they were dong... this didn’t go well with Jagdeo and the executive committee . 

Jagdeo big sister was also living at state house and she was a wedge between the couple... he listen to his sister .

PPP don’t like to be critize , you’re thrown to the curb. You are quickly lable a cut throat .

seignet posted:
Django posted:
seignet posted:
Zed posted:

1. Many agree that the PPP should look for a new leader. However, that will be decided by the membership,of the PPP. As far as I can remember, Jagdeo got the most votes at the last PPP congress. What does that tell you what you have to do?

2. Many said that the PPP would have lost massively at the last elections. Jagdeo played a large role in the campaign. Well, they were proven wrong and the PPP came within one vote of winning enough seats to form a majority government.

3. This thread was about the AFC being hijacked by the PNC element. Django did a great job of diverting you all from the topic and led you to a discussion of the PPP. He played you all for suckers, if I can be allowed for being mildly rude for once.

4. Who are the pro PNC oligarchs in the AFC? Is Trottman one of them? We still do not know what was discussed and what was the plan developed between Trottman and Granger at the meeting in the Bahamas.

5. If the current situation is part if the plan, then all those who supported the AFC were duped, betrayed by the PRo PNC oligarchs in the AFC . Furthermore, both Moses and ramjattan, eager for power, were duped by this Pro PNC elements in the AFC.

Both Moses and Ramjattan should resign out of respect for Guyanese Indians. 

Priya Manichand had said, "we know, you all doan like us", meaning blacks doan like cooolie people. Today, I agree with her. A call to any government agency will soon quality her sattement. If is a black man at the other end of phone and a coolie on the end, the conversation becomes confrontational-as if the coolie has no business to do with Guyana. I witnessed this behaviour some years ago when some black government folks came to meet with the diaspora in Toronto.

Jagdeo and the PPP is a people who endured PNC wrong doings as children growing up in Guyana. I now, also understands their behaviour. 

Indians will have a very difficult time in Guyana. And those Indians who are free, they should pay heed to what is going on with their people. 

So it's all about the PPP and East Indians,and the rest who doesn't conform with the them,can go to hell.

No wonder that Country is Politically screwed.

Black ppl started it off that way. They are back at it again. I expected better from them. There are no excuses for Indians, dem sort of individualistic while black folks are more corporate. But Granger is/was a racist and his whole government is racist.

A black person in position would take a small piece to help you , but Indians demand half of your profit .

they would calculate your profit and tell you .... their wife would show up at your home for the $ 

a black man would step in and protect a Indian , but Indians ... not so 

Dave, from whom is the black (Afro-Guyanese) protecting the Indian? Have you had Them protect you and under what circumstances?

Are you suggesting to us that you have first hand experience with the payoff kind of activity or is your statement based on anecdotal evidence?

Regardless of all the posts about the PPP, we still have the AFC being taken over by the PNC oligarchy and the liars Moses and RAmjattan, who were conned by Trottman, hanging on for dear dollar, building their pension plan. They cannot release themselves from the tiger because they are scared that they will be eaten.

Zed posted:

Dave, from whom is the black (Afro-Guyanese) protecting the Indian? Have you had Them protect you and under what circumstances?

Are you suggesting to us that you have first hand experience with the payoff kind of activity or is your statement based on anecdotal evidence?

Zed , everything I wrote is from personal experience . Had businesses in Guyana and still do . Most Indian business man hire the black as security guard.

We use a black person to deposit our money into the bank - never had a problem . 

Payoff is from personal experience .

i also had terrible experience at the hands of black , scar that is on my body and will be there for life . I also had bad experience at the hands of our kind ... but they are more gentle in robbing you .

i am sure everyone on this forum would have a experience to tell .

Zed posted:

Regardless of all the posts about the PPP, we still have the AFC being taken over by the PNC oligarchy and the liars Moses and RAmjattan, who were conned by Trottman, hanging on for dear dollar, building their pension plan. They cannot release themselves from the tiger because they are scared that they will be eaten.

We all knew this would happen to AFC. Mosses and Rumjat have no choice now . They are in position for the money . Moses knew what PNC did to UF ... he struggle with the ppp but he was bitter what the executive did to him  and decide to screw the PPP. 

Moses did illegal stuff in his younger days with the ppp and a internal investigation was done . A decision was made to fire him, but Dr. Jagan kept him ... Janet want him to go . Hope this provide the answer why she pass the mantel to Jagdeo .

If you asked the older folks ( grass root   PPP) if they know Jagdeo , the answer is NO .

jagdeo never struggle with or for the ppp . The ppp send him along with a few others to study in Russia and on his return he got closer to Jagan . A few guys quit and return home , but did the work on the floor .

i am still a ppp supporter , it’s in my blood but I would not agree with their ideology .

Again I speak from personal experience , went to Ramotar for a licence fire arm and was given the run around . The same very Ramotar who would visit our home . 

Pay bribe and donate TV to Gagraj at the home affairs office . My dad ( chairman of ppp group for years )make reference at the local ppp group meeting regarding the bribery  , the word got to Jagdeo ears and Gagraj make reference to my in laws when they went to apply , in fact my in laws  were seeking to have my gun transfer to them after I migrate and they have huge store in GT .

Gilbakka posted:

.

.

A promise by the APNU+AFC coalition of rapid constitutional reform within months of taking office has collapsed. Two and a half years later nothing has begun.

 

SOURCE = Stabroek News

And those who oppose Granger's unilateral action as he exercise LEGALLY his rights in an ILLEGAL constitution should focus on this.

Those who run behind Jagdeo are like people living in a hovel complaining about the cockroaches.  Obviously if the building is filthy then cockroaches will be rampant.

seignet posted:
it off that way. They are back at it again. I expected better from them. There are no excuses for Indians, dem sort of individualistic while black folks are more corporate. But Granger is/was a racist and his whole government is racist.

Black people cannot even agree about who is or isn't black and here you babble about us being not individualistic?  The most individualistic people on this planet are blacks.  When a black succeeds its not because anyone helps him. We succeed or fail on our own.

 

Indians will be Indians and can only be Indians and will see life through Indian eyes.  A look at GNI is evidence of that.

Demerara_Guy posted:
 

The Civic section of the PPP has members-at-large plus MPs in the past and current governments.

The Civic was Cheddi's Bantustan to ensure that black "allies" would never have any real input into the PPP. Luncheon is the only influential black within the PPP.

Dave posted:
 

Absolutely , Only Indian businessmen will be rich , the majority of Indians will continue to suffer and they will blame PNC and not seeing is Jagdeo suppressing their livelihood .

Yes many running off to the islands after 2000, quite a few becoming semi slaves, and yet they will still rush and kiss Jagdeo's toes and cheer when he babbles about the "coolie people party".

At least blacks have the sense to loudly complain about the fact that Granger is ignoring them.  No kissing of Granger's rear from them.

caribny posted:
Gilbakka posted:

.

.

A promise by the APNU+AFC coalition of rapid constitutional reform within months of taking office has collapsed. Two and a half years later nothing has begun.

 

SOURCE = Stabroek News

And those who oppose Granger's unilateral action as he exercise LEGALLY his rights in an ILLEGAL constitution should focus on this.

Those who run behind Jagdeo are like people living in a hovel complaining about the cockroaches.  Obviously if the building is filthy then cockroaches will be rampant.

One of the most bare-faced talk to ever come from a GNIier. It's a slap on the face on those who cherish a free and democratic society. 

Gilbakka posted:
caribny posted:

Those who run behind Jagdeo are like people living in a hovel complaining about the cockroaches.  Obviously if the building is filthy then cockroaches will be rampant.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. 

What facts.  That Jagdeo is prancing around screaming lies to rally the (Indian) troops?

The constitution is illegal in the first place and I am sure that you know full well the fraud that was involved in putting it in place.  If you want an example of blatant PNC rigging try the referendum.  Even worse than in 1973 and 1968.

So why isn't the emphasis on replacing that instead of falling for Jagdeo's scam?  You are truly naïve if you think that Jagdeo isn't fully aware that the Carter formula is NOT part of the constitution. He had 10 years to do this and did NOT do so.   Clearly then his current screams are an attempt to fool naïve people like YOU.

APNU/AFC promised to work on the constitution within MONTHS.  The PPP promised the same in 1992.  Now I would think that those who care about democracy would focus their energies on that instead of Jagdeo destruction.

If you want to return to the PPP because life is lonely go and do so but don't pretend as if you do so for the good of Guyana.

Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
 

One of the most bare-faced talk to ever come from a GNIier. It's a slap on the face on those who cherish a free and democratic society. 

So go and celebrate Burnham's constitution then.  Don't wail about how he got it through blatant rigging, boasting of massive voter turnout in G/T and winning in Region 6.

I can understand why you agree with Jagdeo that the constitution is wonderful.  Just the wrong person given unlimited power.

caribny posted:
Gilbakka posted:
caribny posted:

Those who run behind Jagdeo are like people living in a hovel complaining about the cockroaches.  Obviously if the building is filthy then cockroaches will be rampant.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. 

What facts.  That Jagdeo is prancing around screaming lies to rally the (Indian) troops?

The constitution is illegal in the first place and I am sure that you know full well the fraud that was involved in putting it in place.  If you want an example of blatant PNC rigging try the referendum.  Even worse than in 1973 and 1968.

So why isn't the emphasis on replacing that instead of falling for Jagdeo's scam?  You are truly naïve if you think that Jagdeo isn't fully aware that the Carter formula is NOT part of the constitution. He had 10 years to do this and did NOT do so.   Clearly then his current screams are an attempt to fool naïve people like YOU.

APNU/AFC promised to work on the constitution within MONTHS.  The PPP promised the same in 1992.  Now I would think that those who care about democracy would focus their energies on that instead of Jagdeo destruction.

If you want to return to the PPP because life is lonely go and do so but don't pretend as if you do so for the good of Guyana.

You still with this same old Jagdeo story.  Times have changed.  You need a new hero. 

caribny posted:
Gilbakka posted:
You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. 

What facts.  That Jagdeo is prancing around screaming lies to rally the (Indian) troops?

The constitution is illegal in the first place and I am sure that you know full well the fraud that was involved in putting it in place.  If you want an example of blatant PNC rigging try the referendum.  Even worse than in 1973 and 1968.

So why isn't the emphasis on replacing that instead of falling for Jagdeo's scam?  You are truly naïve if you think that Jagdeo isn't fully aware that the Carter formula is NOT part of the constitution. He had 10 years to do this and did NOT do so.   Clearly then his current screams are an attempt to fool naïve people like YOU.

APNU/AFC promised to work on the constitution within MONTHS.  The PPP promised the same in 1992.  Now I would think that those who care about democracy would focus their energies on that instead of Jagdeo destruction.

If you want to return to the PPP because life is lonely go and do so but don't pretend as if you do so for the good of Guyana.

Long-winded and short-tempered reply.

Every single Guyanese has his own idea of what is good for Guyana and what political vehicle can bring about that good. 

Sorry you're pissed that I want to return to the PPP but I'm not here to please you.

Bibi Haniffa posted:

 

You still with this same old Jagdeo story.  Times have changed.  You need a new hero. 

Funny everyday I read Guyana news and that evil scowling Jagdeo is right there.

And you scream that he is irrelevant.  Why not tell HIM that he is irrelevant because clearly he doesn't seem to think so.

Gilbakka posted:
 

Every single Guyanese has his own idea of what is good for Guyana and what political vehicle can bring about that good. 

Sorry you're pissed that I want to return to the PPP but I'm not here to please you.

Oh so now you admit that you have returned to that corrupt and racist outfit called the PPP.  Honesty is always good.  I am however not surprised at this turn of events.  I always viewed AFC Indians as PPP supporters in disguise.

caribny posted:
Gilbakka posted:
 

Every single Guyanese has his own idea of what is good for Guyana and what political vehicle can bring about that good. 

Sorry you're pissed that I want to return to the PPP but I'm not here to please you.

Oh so now you admit that you have returned to that corrupt and racist outfit called the PPP.  Honesty is always good.  I am however not surprised at this turn of events.  I always viewed AFC Indians as PPP supporters in disguise.

As political parties in Guyana go these days, ALL are corrupt and racist. PPP, PNC, and even the AFC which comprises ex-PNC and ex-PPP components. As reported in the news recently, the PNC faction has hijacked the AFC. 

As we're at it, Carib, it seems to me that the PNC-dominated APNU has use only for those Indians who are willing and able to vilify Jagdeo and the PPP. When that use value has dissipated, those Indians are reviled for being clannish. 

 

I didn't have a chance to comment on this thread, but I need to opine on on the PNC/AFC relationship. There is no more AFC as we know it. But neither APNU or the AFC can stand solo against PPP in the next election. So, they will hold on to each other to win over the PPP. This may not be the wishes of Granger, but it's a strategic plan to win again. If APNU wins, we will see a new ballgame. Granger would have everything at his disposal to replace the PNC without the AFC and all smaller parties. That said, every member of AFC would be forced to join the PNC.                     

I don't believe AFC politicians wants to be out of jobs. If you listen carefully what Ramjattan and Nagamootoo are saying since they joined APNU, you would know they are speaking for their salary and comfort in the company of Granger over the needs of Guyanese. So, don't second guess if they're called upon. Let me add if the court ruled in favor of Patterson's unilateral appointment, that will give PNC the advantage of winning. Everything you see unfolding are all plans for PNC to stay in power.   

Dave posted:
Zed posted:

Dave, from whom is the black (Afro-Guyanese) protecting the Indian? Have you had Them protect you and under what circumstances?

Are you suggesting to us that you have first hand experience with the payoff kind of activity or is your statement based on anecdotal evidence?

Zed , everything I wrote is from personal experience . Had businesses in Guyana and still do . Most Indian business man hire the black as security guard.

We use a black person to deposit our money into the bank - never had a problem . 

Payoff is from personal experience .

i also had terrible experience at the hands of black , scar that is on my body and will be there for life . I also had bad experience at the hands of our kind ... but they are more gentle in robbing you .

i am sure everyone on this forum would have a experience to tell .

Dave, thanks for sharing the info. I really appreciate it.

caribny posted:
seignet posted:
it off that way. They are back at it again. I expected better from them. There are no excuses for Indians, dem sort of individualistic while black folks are more corporate. But Granger is/was a racist and his whole government is racist.

Black people cannot even agree about who is or isn't black and here you babble about us being not individualistic?  The most individualistic people on this planet are blacks.  When a black succeeds its not because anyone helps him. We succeed or fail on our own.

 

Indians will be Indians and can only be Indians and will see life through Indian eyes.  A look at GNI is evidence of that.

 

I agree that black people cannot agree who is and is not black. I vaguely remember when I came on this site and said that I was black, you wanted to know why I was lying about this.

The same applies to Afro Guyanese. They will see life and issues through Afro-Guyanese eyes. This is not novel. It is a result of people's cognitive structure.

caribny posted:
Demerara_Guy posted:
 

The Civic section of the PPP has members-at-large plus MPs in the past and current governments.

The Civic was Cheddi's Bantustan to ensure that black "allies" would never have any real input into the PPP. Luncheon is the only influential black within the PPP.

Is that similar to PNC reform, the APNU and the AFC-APNU coalition? 

It is your narrative that Afro Guyanese in the PPP are puppets but what of the Indo Guyanese in the PNC or in rhe present coalition. Do they really have real power? This is all debatable  Just the narrative you want to propagate. 

caribny posted:
Dave posted:
 

Absolutely , Only Indian businessmen will be rich , the majority of Indians will continue to suffer and they will blame PNC and not seeing is Jagdeo suppressing their livelihood .

Yes many running off to the islands after 2000, quite a few becoming semi slaves, and yet they will still rush and kiss Jagdeo's toes and cheer when he babbles about the "coolie people party".

At least blacks have the sense to loudly complain about the fact that Granger is ignoring them.  No kissing of Granger's rear from them.

What us so wrong with people moving to other places to make a living or to have a better life. Is that why many iof us and you moved from Guyana. You do know that there are push and pull factors and that it is poor scholarship to attitribite human action or complex social dynamics to one reason or dimension.

Gilbakka posted:
 

As we're at it, Carib, it seems to me that the PNC-dominated APNU has use only for those Indians who are willing and able to vilify Jagdeo and the PPP. When that use value has dissipated, those Indians are reviled for being clannish. 

 

The PPP only has use for black tokens and goons like the House of Israel crew who they coopted.  Some of the same ones who bashed in their  PPP  heads, and killed WPA supporters during the Burnham era, yet they gladly coopted those savages now.

I will suggest to you that the PPP has no more use for independent blacks than does the PNC have for independent Indians, so I don't know why you raise that nonsense when my focus is to change the co0nstitution so that the devastating instincts of BOTH Granger and Jagdeo (both Burnham admirers) can be contained.

Moses campaigned on the basis of telling Indians that if the PNC didn't behave that he would use his seats in parliament to take them out of office.

I spoke lengthily about that tactic and how it would backfire because it alarmed black/mixed voters.

Did you see what they saw. An Indian threatening to hold them to ransom and bring back an Indian dictatorship that placed blacks in a horrendous condition if he didn't get his wishes. DAILY I warn people that Guyana has TWO narratives of ethnic insecurity and victimhood. DAILY you and the rest of your crowd give validity ONLY to the Indian side, then you want to know why blacks don't trust you all.

 

But run off back to your PPP plantation.  I also predicted that this would happen.  An Indian is an Indian who can only see himself as an Indian.  Being Guyanese isn't within their cultural reference.

Zed posted:
.

What us so wrong with people moving to other places to make a living or to have a better life.

Except that the "better" life eluded many of the PPP supporters who fled to Barbados and Trinidad where the locals saw them as impoverished people who deserved to be exploited.

Really, no kissing of Granger's rear? The only Afro Guyanese complaining publicly are the few WPA  types and some intellectuals. Look at those who have been on the street demonstrate their support for Granger and exposing their private parts. Where is your objective evidence that some part of his base support has turned against him? Where is the mass demonstration against the 50 percent raise, the imposed salary increases for public servants, the eviction of the squatters from the banks of the canal and from Sophia., the slow down in the economy, no jobs for youths, the broken promise of inquiry of the many murdered Afro Guyanese, etc?

.

Zed posted:

Really, no kissing of Granger's rear? The only Afro Guyanese complaining publicly are the few WPA  types and some intellectuals.

.

So where are these huge crowds of blacks cheering on Granger?  I don't see them.

Of course some racist takes a video of a few stupid boys and suddenly this becomes black people.  And you with your biased opinion of blacks quickly salivates and swallows this.

The dominant view of the PNC support base is that they voted for change, not exchange.  That they remain unimpressed with what they see.  They want to know why all these old people appointed. The vendors were very angry when they were displaced.  Linden frequently expresses their skepticism of Granger, to the point where he hardly even goes there even though that should be the most densely PNC area in Guyana.

And in fact this has been expressed by the PPP crowd as they seek to find evidence that Granger has lost the support of his base.  This is why Jagdeo thinks that he can go to Linden.  When Jagdeo went to Linden where were the defiant crowds chasing him out?  He went there and they went about their usual business.

 

caribny posted:
Gilbakka posted:
caribny posted:

Those who run behind Jagdeo are like people living in a hovel complaining about the cockroaches.  Obviously if the building is filthy then cockroaches will be rampant.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. 

What facts.  That Jagdeo is prancing around screaming lies to rally the (Indian) troops?

The constitution is illegal in the first place and I am sure that you know full well the fraud that was involved in putting it in place.  If you want an example of blatant PNC rigging try the referendum.  Even worse than in 1973 and 1968.

So why isn't the emphasis on replacing that instead of falling for Jagdeo's scam?  You are truly naïve if you think that Jagdeo isn't fully aware that the Carter formula is NOT part of the constitution. He had 10 years to do this and did NOT do so.   Clearly then his current screams are an attempt to fool naïve people like YOU.

APNU/AFC promised to work on the constitution within MONTHS.  The PPP promised the same in 1992.  Now I would think that those who care about democracy would focus their energies on that instead of Jagdeo destruction.

If you want to return to the PPP because life is lonely go and do so but don't pretend as if you do so for the good of Guyana.

 

Please  tell me if any one of the major political parties can unilaterally change the major parts of the . constitution. 

Regarding the recent action of Granger to unilaterally select the chairman of GECom, What is the process stated in the constitution? What has that process worked since that process was put into the constitution until now when Granger made his own legal definition?

I also suggest that you look at the last LGE. Make note of the numbers of INDEPENDENT groups which emerged in PNC strongholds.  In fact Kwakwani is now run by these groups, NOT APNU!

Didn't notice any independent groups in PPP strongholds.

Zed posted:
 

Please  tell me if any one of the major political parties can unilaterally change the major parts of the . constitution. 

Regarding the recent action of Granger to unilaterally select the chairman of GECom, What is the process stated in the constitution? What has that process worked since that process was put into the constitution until now when Granger made his own legal definition?

Funny thing. Jagdeo cannot do a thing to change Granger's mind as he did NOT incorporate the Carter formula into the constitution when he had the ability to do so.  Yet here he is wailing, so he could have certainly attempted to embed the Carter formula into the constitution to remove the ability of a president to act unilaterally.

At the time when the PNC had lost confidence of its ability to ever win another election they would in fact cooperated with him if he had wanted to do this.

Jagdeo did NOT even try to make a marginal amendment to the constitution because he did NOT want to lose the right to act unilaterally if the PNC sent nominees who he didn't like.

caribny posted:
Billy Ram Balgobin posted:
 

One of the most bare-faced talk to ever come from a GNIier. It's a slap on the face on those who cherish a free and democratic society. 

So go and celebrate Burnham's constitution then.  Don't wail about how he got it through blatant rigging, boasting of massive voter turnout in G/T and winning in Region 6.

I can understand why you agree with Jagdeo that the constitution is wonderful.  Just the wrong person given unlimited power.

I do not think that anyone is saying that the present constitution is wonderful. It is what we currently have and dictates how things are done. Changing the constitution is not an easy task as the present and past governments have found out (the exception being the PNC dictatorship,which rigged elections and the referendum) It is what must be followed until a concesus  is arrived at in terms of what the aspirations of the people of Guyana are and how  those are codified in the constitution. The courts are final arbiter when it comes to the interpretation of the constitution, not a president who has no legal training.

The constitution is a static document that sets parameters as to what the various actors are allowed to do and obligated to do.  The Carter formula is NOT in the constitution.  The mere fact that it was used by prior regimes does NOT obligate Granger to follow suit.

All Granger has to adhere to is the constitution which allows him to act unilaterally if HE as the president doesn't think that the list includes people who he considers to be reasonable.

Given the obvious flaws in the constitution and the fact that Jagdeo has NO interest in changing it, makes it interesting how ethnic insecurities can allow him to have his way.

Jagdeo is saying NOTHING about the fact that APNU/AFC promised to prioritize a revision of the constitution and to date has clearly been dragging its feet.  Jagdeo says NOTHING on this because Jagdeo loves the degree to which this Burnham concocted rag centralizes power around the president and puts that person above the law.

But continue to be a Jagdeo tool.

Dave posted:

If you asked the older folks ( grass root   PPP) if they know Jagdeo , the answer is NO .

jagdeo never struggle with or for the ppp . The ppp send him along with a few others to study in Russia and on his return he got closer to Jagan . A few guys quit and return home , but did the work on the floor .

i am still a ppp supporter , it’s in my blood but I would not agree with their ideology .

Again I speak from personal experience , went to Ramotar for a licence fire arm and was given the run around . The same very Ramotar who would visit our home . 

Pay bribe and donate TV to Gagraj at the home affairs office . My dad ( chairman of ppp group for years )make reference at the local ppp group meeting regarding the bribery  , the word got to Jagdeo ears and Gagraj make reference to my in laws when they went to apply , in fact my in laws  were seeking to have my gun transfer to them after I migrate and they have huge store in GT .

Dave, I take a different approach to things, I am involved in some charitable and development work here but I have never gone to any of the ministers or government officials, the ppp or the coalition  to ask for tax concessions or any help To carry out our objectives. We factor in all the costs and it is less headache and no ass kissing.

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