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FM
Former Member

ACP countries follow Ramotar’s lead - stand in solidarity with Bouterse against EU boycott

 
By Gary Eleazar
May 27, 2012 | By | Filed Under News 

Source


The African Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) sugar-producing States, inclusive of Suriname and the Dominican Republic, have unanimously agreed to follow the lead of Guyana’s President Donald Ramotar in protest of a European Union boycott of a major forum in Suriname.


The EU has taken a decision led by a Dutch Parliamentarian to not have the EU/ACP Assembly be hosted in Suriname in protest of Amnesty legislation recently passed in The Netherlands.

 

Guyana’s Head of State Donald Ramotar (right) in solidarity with his Surinamese counterpart, Desi Bouterse

 

Representatives of the ACP Countries met in Denmark on Friday, last, where the matter was discussed and unanimously agreed that the ACP countries would stand in solidarity with Surinamese president Desi Bouterse.


The EU/ACP is the largest multilateral meeting after the General Assembly of the United Nations, and would bring close to 1,000 parliamentarians from the European Union, Africa, the Caribbean and Pacific States, to Suriname.


The decision by the EU’s Parliament stems from amnesty law passed in Suriname’s National Assembly last April, that pardons Suriname’s president Desi Bouterse for crimes committed under his earlier military rule in 1982.


Head of State Donald Ramotar this past week told this publication that Guyana will be opposed to such a move, adding that if the European Union respects democracy then it would respect the will of the Surinamese people and their decisions.


Kaieteur News understands that the European members of respective parliaments, opposed to the confab being held in Suriname, are also unopposed to Bouterse joining the meeting if hosted in another country, hence Guyana was suggested.


According to reports from the EU, there is the belief that Bouterse is seeking to use such meetings in Suriname as a means of demonstrating to those opposed to him that he still gains international respect.


According to international reports, Parmessar Rabin, leader of the Parliamentary delegation in Denmark, has in recent days been lobbying for the ACP countries to get behind Suriname.


It is Rabin who is being credited with forging unity among the former colonies in protest of the EU’s decision.


At the plenary sessions of last Friday’s meeting in Denmark, co-president of the ACP-EU, Musikari Kombo, tasked to communicate the position of the ACP countries to the EU, said that if there is no cooperation from the European side, the joint meeting will not take place in November.


The EU’s Parliament now suggests moving the venue to either Curacao or Aruba should Guyana not be available.


Guyana had been first proposed as an alternative to hosting the meeting in Suriname, but President Ramotar is not entertaining the idea, insisting that the meeting must be held in Suriname, and the will of the Surinamese people with the election of their leader must be respected.


Europarliamentarian Toine Manders who had spearheaded the move against hosting the meeting in Suriname, said it wouldn’t bode well for EU-ACP relations if the ACP parliamentarians decide that they do support Suriname.


“There will be no meeting without the Europarliamentarians, so we should choose a different host country. It would be bad for our relations if the meeting isn’t held at all,” he said, hinting that it is Europe who is footing the bill. “The cost of this meeting is in the millions,” he stressed.


The controversial Amnesty Law was approved by Suriname’s National Assembly, amidst local and international calls not to do so. The law pardons President Bouterse for crimes committed under his earlier military rule, including the December 8, 1982 murders of 15 men.


Holland, with whom Bouterse has a strained relationship, has since the law was approved, said that Suriname would feel the backlash. Development aid was ceased and the country is being boycotted.


The Dutch Europarliamentarians say it would go against their principles if they would attend the meeting in Suriname, shake hands with Bouterse, and listen to him addressing the gathering.

Replies sorted oldest to newest

They( APC NATIONS)  can do what the hell they want but if Ramotar and his Party want to have a moral footing to complain of the PNC almost  then they better treat all dictators and usurpers alike or be accused of gross hypocrisy.

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
I must agree that Bourtese has blood on his hands. And do does Granger. Send both off to international courts.

----

 

Hmmm...this is quite a subdued and measured response by our cyber non-onion/garlic/meat/fish eating Brahmin. I guess you would have been hollering and bawling if Khemraj or Raphael was in bed with the Indo killer Bourtese. You even tried to pull in Mr Granger to cover for your lame howl.

FM
TK Your weakness is your inability to engage in a debate. Is this your best response ? No wonder you lecture at a second grade college. Let us engage in a meaningful debate, until then you continue to expose your weaknesses.
FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
TK Your weakness is your inability to engage in a debate. Is this your best response ? No wonder you lecture at a second grade college. Let us engage in a meaningful debate, until then you continue to expose your weaknesses.

---

 

Hehe...this is at best lame...I got my message over. Oh BTW yuh remembuh de football match in Buxton when Bourtese son attended? Hehe...

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
I must agree that Bourtese has blood on his hands. And do does Granger. Send both off to international courts.

Who did Granger kill? List the persons and the direct link connecting him and the murders.

 

Do you hear anyone calling Ramotar a murderer while all indications are he has to have been informed of that tacitly if not explicitly as to  what RK and Gajraj was doing?

FM
Originally Posted by yuji22:
TK Your weakness is your inability to engage in a debate. Is this your best response ? No wonder you lecture at a second grade college. Let us engage in a meaningful debate, until then you continue to expose your weaknesses.

I am yet to see you make a linear argument from premise to conclusion that is valid. 

 

You make scatter brained assertions  and launch caustic attacks on those assertions that is all. Why don't you show us in the form of a simple syllogism how conclude TK does not know to debate.

 

Above you have three grandiose generalizations and each of them standing on air and yet you insist you are debating.

 

Are you mad or simply stupid and cannot help yourself?

FM

Ramotar is right to insist upon the principle of national sovereignty. If we let that principle go, world war is next on the agenda. It is more important to re-assert that principle than it is to pass judgement on the internal affairs of other nations, and it is certainly a more honourable position than to suck up to the colonial powers as some opposition parties are wont to do.

FM
Originally Posted by Henry:

Ramotar is right to insist upon the principle of national sovereignty. If we let that principle go, world war is next on the agenda. It is more important to re-assert that principle than it is to pass judgement on the internal affairs of other nations, and it is certainly a more honourable position than to suck up to the colonial powers as some opposition parties are wont to do.

The honorable thing is to condemn dictators who use force to oppress their people.  Sovereignty is not sacrosanct. If it were we would not have so many wars across the globe.  Further, sovereignty means others recognize in principle that within national borders one can act within the parameters of the laws of the state. That was trampled on when he overthrew a government and instituted harsh murderous rule. Ramotar would not like the PNC overthrow his government, murder his cabinet,  gerrymander a majority and then absolve themselves of their sins in.

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
Originally Posted by Henry:

Ramotar is right to insist upon the principle of national sovereignty. If we let that principle go, world war is next on the agenda. It is more important to re-assert that principle than it is to pass judgement on the internal affairs of other nations, and it is certainly a more honourable position than to suck up to the colonial powers as some opposition parties are wont to do.

The honorable thing is to condemn dictators who use force to oppress their people.  Sovereignty is not sacrosanct. If it were we would not have so many wars across the globe.  Further, sovereignty means others recognize in principle that within national borders one can act within the parameters of the laws of the state in humane ways not inhumanely. Humanity has a trans national superior responsibility to curtail barbarism than the barbarian asserting sovereignty as covering a  right to be barbaric.

 

That was trampled on when he overthrew a government and instituted harsh murderous rule. Ramotar would not like the PNC overthrow his government, murder his cabinet,  gerrymander a majority and then absolve themselves of their sins in.

FM
Hague cellOriginally Posted by Tar_K:
Originally Posted by yuji22:
I must agree that Bourtese has blood on his hands. And do does Granger. Send both off to international courts.

----

 

Hmmm...this is quite a subdued and measured response by our cyber non-onion/garlic/meat/fish eating Brahmin. I guess you would have been hollering and bawling if Khemraj or Raphael was in bed with the Indo killer Bourtese. You even tried to pull in Mr Granger to cover for your lame howl.

These parties are in bed with Bourtese, Granger and Green.  I say Bourtese, Granger and Green for the Hague.  Indian Killers look out Hague is watching you. 

Prashad
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Sovereignty is not sacrosanct. If it were we would not have so many wars across the globe.  

Thank you for making my point. Although it was inadvertent, it was nonetheless the only constructive thing you have done in your 75-80 posts so far today, using your assorted accounts.

 

The concept of sovereignty originated with the Peace of Westphalia, and it was incorporated into the UN charter after the sobering experience of two world wars. It was intended to be sacrosanct. But sovereignty is the enemy of Empire. When Hitler annexed the Sudetenland, he proclaimed that he was doing so to defend ethnic Germans from a "dictator" who was "using force to oppress his people." 


The most recent assault on sovereignty is the so-called "Blair Doctrine," from Tony Blair's 1999 speech in Chicago where he asserted to right to violate sovereignty for "humanitarian" reasons. He's such a humanitarian.

FM

this move by ramotar tell me that he is a ass,and is not thinkng about guyanese welfare.first the EU is footing the bill and they have the right to choose where they want to hold this conference,why support a man that is wanted for murder and cannot help guyana,the EU  can help guyana.ramotar and the ppp crime family might find themself in the same boat  soon  

FM
Originally Posted by Henry:
Originally Posted by Stormborn:

Sovereignty is not sacrosanct. If it were we would not have so many wars across the globe.  

Thank you for making my point. Although it was inadvertent, it was nonetheless the only constructive thing you have done in your 75-80 posts so far today, using your assorted accounts.

 

The concept of sovereignty originated with the Peace of Westphalia, and it was incorporated into the UN charter after the sobering experience of two world wars. It was intended to be sacrosanct. But sovereignty is the enemy of Empire. When Hitler annexed the Sudetenland, he proclaimed that he was doing so to defend ethnic Germans from a "dictator" who was "using force to oppress his people." 


The most recent assault on sovereignty is the so-called "Blair Doctrine," from Tony Blair's 1999 speech in Chicago where he asserted to right to violate sovereignty for "humanitarian" reasons. He's such a humanitarian.

 First of all, in a decade of posting I doubt even the most prolific of posters, Freaky, ever made 75 posts in a day. Today, I made under ten so that bull is your usual begging the question.

 

No formal system can ever be 100%, not even our best scientific system. Human systems seeking to control human emotions I am sure do not get high  efficiency rates either.There are too many peculiar people in the world...you notwithstanding. To say something is sacrosanct means  respect for a principle that is at its best only among rational actors.

 

Blair did not need to affirm what is already an logical expression of our humanity. As noted above, sovereignty is about autonomy under the law. No right to autonomy exist in instances of genocidal wars of attrition against another in the same or extra territorial space.

 

A sort of good Samaritan right succeeds that. I already quoted the second treatise on Locke about the right of assist another in distress exceeding the right of any person on any principle insisting for example,  a moral authority  to pull another person's finger nails. The necessity to bitch slap that MFer to hell exists as a superior moral imperative. No infraction to the sanctity of the principle of non injury to a another would be deemed to have occurred!

 

You are appealing to nonsensical rule making.  Sovereignty is not meant as a shield to hide murderers. And Malaysia is not authoritative in my book on the nature of  rights.

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by yuji22:
TK Your weakness is your inability to engage in a debate. Is this your best response ? No wonder you lecture at a second grade college. Let us engage in a meaningful debate, until then you continue to expose your weaknesses.

----

 

Yuji...you seem envious of TK. 

FM

Why should I be jealous ? He is the one who started to post mockery at me. Read up on this forum. I have no problems engaging in a debate but it is disgraceful for him to engage in personal attacks rather than debates.

FM
Originally Posted by baseman:
Originally Posted by PRK:
Originally Posted by baseman:

Bourtese and Surinaam are a stratgic hedge of the PPP.

And what might that be? 

Use your grey, connect the dots.

Have the courage of your convictions and speak plainly you cowardly bum!

 

Most of us are not members of your special 'club' . . . we don't know the secret 'codes' to decrypt . . . 

FM
Last edited by Former Member
Originally Posted by yuji22:

Why should I be jealous ? He is the one who started to post mockery at me. Read up on this forum. I have no problems engaging in a debate but it is disgraceful for him to engage in personal attacks rather than debates.

What sort of lie are you fabricating again?

 

Show me one post where you made a linear argument from premise to conclusion and I will frame it in terms of predicate calculus to demonstrate how hopelessly pathetic what you call argumentation is.

 

You trive on muck raking, nonsensical generalization and bigoted assumptions. You are after all a Brahmin!

FM
Originally Posted by Stormborn:
 

Show me one post where you made a linear argument from premise to conclusion and I will frame it in terms of predicate calculus to demonstrate how hopelessly pathetic what you call argumentation is.

 

FM

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